scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,614 
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Post by scipioafricanus on Mar 7, 2019 12:29:35 GMT
Wow, what a sad man. Imagine hating Modern art so much that you have to give money to organizations that support "good taste". I'm sorry scipioafricanus , but that man is simply incredibly oblivious to good Modern art. Some of the examples he used are not my taste in art, but cherry picking some "good" art from the past and then taking some of the "worse" Modern art and comparing them is obviously him trying to push his agenda. Just because it is new, doesn't mean it is good. |
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,838
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Post by Balder on Mar 7, 2019 13:05:41 GMT
Wow, what a sad man. Imagine hating Modern art so much that you have to give money to organizations that support "good taste". I'm sorry scipioafricanus , but that man is simply incredibly oblivious to good Modern art. Some of the examples he used are not my taste in art, but cherry picking some "good" art from the past and then taking some of the "worse" Modern art and comparing them is obviously him trying to push his agenda. Just because it is new, doesn't mean it is good. Completely agree with you, but that guy's assessment of all Modern art suck is just uneducated. |
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Dlotn
Strong Wing
One of my biggest regrets: Making trades and bets with Balder
Posts: 215
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Post by Dlotn on Mar 7, 2019 19:30:23 GMT
Scipioadricanus. That thing about Jackson Pollock was pretty dull. If anyone have ever seen anything from him, they could easily see that it wasn't one of his. Even I could see that it wasn't from Jackson Pollock xD
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,838
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Post by Balder on Mar 7, 2019 20:48:57 GMT
Scipioadricanus. That thing about Jackson Pollock was pretty dull. If anyone have ever seen anything from him, they could easily see that it wasn't one of his. Even I could see that it wasn't from Jackson Pollock xD Totally agree. Anyone who's seen more than one Pollock painting should've spotted that ruse miles away. |
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dschult3
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
The true heir to the Monado.
Posts: 2,887
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Post by dschult3 on Mar 8, 2019 2:45:02 GMT
Gentlemen, art is beautiful in the eye of the beholder. However, there is one universal truth:
Mankind perfected art with the Atari 2600 console.
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,614
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Post by scipioafricanus on Mar 8, 2019 11:49:11 GMT
Gentlemen, art is beautiful in the eye of the beholder. However, there is one universal truth: Mankind perfected art with the Atari 2600 console.  |
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,838
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Post by Balder on Mar 8, 2019 12:40:10 GMT
It is really cannot be compared to anything else. It's just that great. Let Atari rule this thread.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Mar 8, 2019 19:29:45 GMT
...
Okay, let's get down to it. Doesn't seem like any reason is going through that skull of yours, so fuck it. Let me explain one last time. If you were actually paying attention to what I was writing I said I wouldn't continue discussing because the discussion weren't about the movies anymore, it was about ripping into me as a person and what I like. We like different things, and there was no way of convincing the other person. But you just couldn't let it go, could you?
Anyone who has studied art in school knows that realism is more difficult to produce than cartoons or expressionism, due to the fact that realism requires knowledge on perspective and anatomy in order to look accurate, whereas expressionism by nature does not follow specific guidelines in regards to technique, so it can be produced without any knowledge on artistic technique.
That's one of the dumbest things you've ever said Maestro. It's completely untrue. Realism and Expressionism are quite different, but none of them are objectively better than the other or requires more effort. If you've ever studied art, you'd know that there is subjectivity and great art is what a person think is great art. Personally I think Realism is boring as fuck as there usually aren't any deeper meanings to things. What you see is what you get. The most famous art person in Norwegian history is Henrik Ibsen, an international famous playwright, who exclusively made Realism and Naturalism works. I don't even like most of his stuff.
I love how you call FF realism, because it couldn't be farther from the truth. It has nothing to do with realism. It's fucking sci-fi for fucks sake. Realism is not about the presentation, but about the themes.
That said, even by cartoon standards, The Incredibles falls very short of the best the genre has to offer. Both The Triplets of Belleville and Raggedy Ann and Andy: A Musical Adventure display a far more extensive knowledge on art, as both films use advanced techniques such as cross-hatching and perspective shots not seen in the former film. And as I previously said even earlier 3D animation by Pixar like Finding Nemo and their short film Geri's Game were far more ambitious.
Haven't seen the stuff you're mentioning except Finding Nemo, and it's not as good as The Incredibles.
Judging by your profile pic (which looks like it was drawn by a 12 year old) you clearly have no training in realism so I don't think you're in a position to be issuing objective statements on the subject. Personally, as a hobbyiest artist who draws realism I find it disrespectful that you're talking down to me on the matter.
Okay, here's where you went too far. I was going to ignore responding to you because nothing good is going to come out of this discussion, but now you're just being a grade A asshole. So listen here you little shit: Yes, I drew my profile pic, and it may look like it was drawn by a 12 year old, but I was in fact I drew that when I was 18. Some backstory: I hadn't drawn anything since I was in elementary, and I've always been fascinated by people who could draw, but I never took the time to learn how to draw. So here at 18 I decided I would at least try to draw something, and I drew 4 drawings that day. 3 of them didn't really mean anything to me, but this one stuck with me. It's not a good drawing, one can easily see that it's drawn by a complete amateur, but art isn't about Realism or expertly drawings, but more about what they mean. I use that drawing for every account I use. I love that shitty drawing, because it reminds me of when I was 18 and I dared to do something I sucked at. It reminds me of High School, that dead-end job I was working, having little responsibilities and could spend my time playing video games all day, getting my driver's license and my first car, hanging around with friends getting milkshakes and having LAN parties every other weekend and so much more. That drawing there has more depth to it than you can imagine. So when you talk shit about it, I just know that you haven't a single clue about what you're talking about, because you haven't sat down just to look at something and see something more than what it looks like. So fine, go back to your Realism where you don't have to worry about interpretation because everything is laid out to you like the baby you are. I'll hang back here to look at some of my favorite art pieces from Jackson Pollock, Vincent van Gogh and the experimental short film Wavelength (1967).
In regards to your first point that I bolded: WTF Have YOU studied art, Balder?? Do you not remember when I said a while back that I took a college art course? In college the professors never teach expressionism, only realism, and there's a reason. It's because they're teaching technique, such as perspective, dimension, anatomy, etc. Those are things that any professional artist needs to know in order to survive. Most forms of expressionism (such as cubism) don't even utilize perspective or dimension. Heck, some pieces of expressionism are literally just blotches or smears of different colors of paint on a canvas. Don't get me wrong, color is a wonderful thing and pieces like that can be appealing to look at, but it doesn't change the fact that they do not require techniques such as the three I mentioned above. I want to point out that the most successful and well known expressionists of the early 1900s, such as Picasso and Marcel DuChamp, were trained in realism and painted realism before they switched to expression once they became famous, because by then their reputation for making art was so impressive (professors who saw Picasso's early realistic studies regarded him as a prodigy) that it allowed them to find success in producing expressionism pieces. Once again you talked down to me like a patronizing asshole and I do NOT appreciate that. Saying my opinion is "dumb" and proceeding to issue ultimatums right afterwards despite knowing that I have studied art both in school and in my free-time is pure stupidity on your part and anyone who makes objective statements about something they know nothing about deserves to be corrected. There are some subjects that you understand much better than I but art is not one of them. Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within IS realism in terms of art direction. A realistic theme is not the same as a realistic visual design, you fucking idiot. "Theme" in that sense has to do with story/setting NOT the visual direction. In response to your second point: Finding Nemo is clearly better in the visuals department. I don't care for the film myself but when you compare its visual design to The Incredibles' it comes out on top. If this is the way you are going to treat me then you deserve to be mocked for your lack of understanding about the subject of art. From now on whenever I look at your childishly drawn avatar I'm going to LAUGH OUT LOUD and happily remind myself that you deserve such ridicule. Have you studied art? No? Then don't talk down to me on the subject please. |
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,838
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Post by Balder on Mar 8, 2019 22:01:28 GMT
...
Okay, let's get down to it. Doesn't seem like any reason is going through that skull of yours, so fuck it. Let me explain one last time. If you were actually paying attention to what I was writing I said I wouldn't continue discussing because the discussion weren't about the movies anymore, it was about ripping into me as a person and what I like. We like different things, and there was no way of convincing the other person. But you just couldn't let it go, could you?
Anyone who has studied art in school knows that realism is more difficult to produce than cartoons or expressionism, due to the fact that realism requires knowledge on perspective and anatomy in order to look accurate, whereas expressionism by nature does not follow specific guidelines in regards to technique, so it can be produced without any knowledge on artistic technique.
That's one of the dumbest things you've ever said Maestro. It's completely untrue. Realism and Expressionism are quite different, but none of them are objectively better than the other or requires more effort. If you've ever studied art, you'd know that there is subjectivity and great art is what a person think is great art. Personally I think Realism is boring as fuck as there usually aren't any deeper meanings to things. What you see is what you get. The most famous art person in Norwegian history is Henrik Ibsen, an international famous playwright, who exclusively made Realism and Naturalism works. I don't even like most of his stuff.
I love how you call FF realism, because it couldn't be farther from the truth. It has nothing to do with realism. It's fucking sci-fi for fucks sake. Realism is not about the presentation, but about the themes.
That said, even by cartoon standards, The Incredibles falls very short of the best the genre has to offer. Both The Triplets of Belleville and Raggedy Ann and Andy: A Musical Adventure display a far more extensive knowledge on art, as both films use advanced techniques such as cross-hatching and perspective shots not seen in the former film. And as I previously said even earlier 3D animation by Pixar like Finding Nemo and their short film Geri's Game were far more ambitious.
Haven't seen the stuff you're mentioning except Finding Nemo, and it's not as good as The Incredibles.
Judging by your profile pic (which looks like it was drawn by a 12 year old) you clearly have no training in realism so I don't think you're in a position to be issuing objective statements on the subject. Personally, as a hobbyiest artist who draws realism I find it disrespectful that you're talking down to me on the matter.
Okay, here's where you went too far. I was going to ignore responding to you because nothing good is going to come out of this discussion, but now you're just being a grade A asshole. So listen here you little shit: Yes, I drew my profile pic, and it may look like it was drawn by a 12 year old, but I was in fact I drew that when I was 18. Some backstory: I hadn't drawn anything since I was in elementary, and I've always been fascinated by people who could draw, but I never took the time to learn how to draw. So here at 18 I decided I would at least try to draw something, and I drew 4 drawings that day. 3 of them didn't really mean anything to me, but this one stuck with me. It's not a good drawing, one can easily see that it's drawn by a complete amateur, but art isn't about Realism or expertly drawings, but more about what they mean. I use that drawing for every account I use. I love that shitty drawing, because it reminds me of when I was 18 and I dared to do something I sucked at. It reminds me of High School, that dead-end job I was working, having little responsibilities and could spend my time playing video games all day, getting my driver's license and my first car, hanging around with friends getting milkshakes and having LAN parties every other weekend and so much more. That drawing there has more depth to it than you can imagine. So when you talk shit about it, I just know that you haven't a single clue about what you're talking about, because you haven't sat down just to look at something and see something more than what it looks like. So fine, go back to your Realism where you don't have to worry about interpretation because everything is laid out to you like the baby you are. I'll hang back here to look at some of my favorite art pieces from Jackson Pollock, Vincent van Gogh and the experimental short film Wavelength (1967).
In regards to your first point that I bolded: WTF Have YOU studied art, Balder?? Do you not remember when I said a while back that I took a college art course? In college the professors never teach expressionism, only realism, and there's a reason. It's because they're teaching technique, such as perspective, dimension, anatomy, etc. Those are things that any professional artist needs to know in order to survive. Most forms of expressionism (such as cubism) don't even utilize perspective or dimension. Heck, some pieces of expressionism are literally just blotches or smears of different colors of paint on a canvas. Don't get me wrong, color is a wonderful thing and pieces like that can be appealing to look at, but it doesn't change the fact that they do not require techniques such as the three I mentioned above. I want to point out that the most successful and well known expressionists of the early 1900s, such as Picasso and Marcel DuChamp, were trained in realism and painted realism before they switched to expression once they became famous, because by then their reputation for making art was so impressive (professors who saw Picasso's early realistic studies regarded him as a prodigy) that it allowed them to find success in producing expressionism pieces. Once again you talked down to me like a patronizing asshole and I do NOT appreciate that. Saying my opinion is "dumb" and proceeding to issue ultimatums right afterwards despite knowing that I have studied art both in school and in my free-time is pure stupidity on your part and anyone who makes objective statements about something they know nothing about deserves to be corrected. There are some subjects that you understand much better than I but art is not one of them. Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within IS realism in terms of art direction. A realistic theme is not the same as a realistic visual design, you fucking idiot. "Theme" in that sense has to do with story/setting NOT the visual direction. In response to your second point: Finding Nemo is clearly better in the visuals department. I don't care for the film myself but when you compare its visual design to The Incredibles' it comes out on top. If this is the way you are going to treat me then you deserve to be mocked for your lack of understanding about the subject of art. From now on whenever I look at your childishly drawn avatar I'm going to LAUGH OUT LOUD and happily remind myself that you deserve such ridicule. Have you studied art? No? Then don't talk down to me on the subject please. Yes, in fact I have studied forms of art, but I have not created art myself in school. You may have studied art as well, but your understanding of it is so subjective that it's been wasted on you. You're so incredibly unstable, the only one who's deserving ridicule here is you. I wonder how a discussion with you in real life would go down. There are so many small things in life that you hate. There simply seems to be so few things that bring you joy, and if there exist anything, it's usually followed by something you hate in contrast. I don't know if I've ever read you enjoy something without bringing up something that bugs you as well. And fuck dude, even after people has called you out for being overly aggressive and angry towards other users, you've just delved deeper. At this point it's just tragic. I never even said that FF was that bad, but that's just ain't good enough for ya I guess. |
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,614
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Post by scipioafricanus on Mar 9, 2019 0:34:28 GMT
In regards to your first point that I bolded: WTF Have YOU studied art, Balder?? Do you not remember when I said a while back that I took a college art course? In college the professors never teach expressionism, only realism, and there's a reason. It's because they're teaching technique, such as perspective, dimension, anatomy, etc. Those are things that any professional artist needs to know in order to survive. Most forms of expressionism (such as cubism) don't even utilize perspective or dimension. Heck, some pieces of expressionism are literally just blotches or smears of different colors of paint on a canvas. Don't get me wrong, color is a wonderful thing and pieces like that can be appealing to look at, but it doesn't change the fact that they do not require techniques such as the three I mentioned above. I want to point out that the most successful and well known expressionists of the early 1900s, such as Picasso and Marcel DuChamp, were trained in realism and painted realism before they switched to expression once they became famous, because by then their reputation for making art was so impressive (professors who saw Picasso's early realistic studies regarded him as a prodigy) that it allowed them to find success in producing expressionism pieces. Once again you talked down to me like a patronizing asshole and I do NOT appreciate that. Saying my opinion is "dumb" and proceeding to issue ultimatums right afterwards despite knowing that I have studied art both in school and in my free-time is pure stupidity on your part and anyone who makes objective statements about something they know nothing about deserves to be corrected. There are some subjects that you understand much better than I but art is not one of them. Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within IS realism in terms of art direction. A realistic theme is not the same as a realistic visual design, you fucking idiot. "Theme" in that sense has to do with story/setting NOT the visual direction. In response to your second point: Finding Nemo is clearly better in the visuals department. I don't care for the film myself but when you compare its visual design to The Incredibles' it comes out on top. If this is the way you are going to treat me then you deserve to be mocked for your lack of understanding about the subject of art. From now on whenever I look at your childishly drawn avatar I'm going to LAUGH OUT LOUD and happily remind myself that you deserve such ridicule. Have you studied art? No? Then don't talk down to me on the subject please. Yes, in fact I have studied forms of art, but I have not created art myself in school. You may have studied art as well, but your understanding of it is so subjective that it's been wasted on you. You're so incredibly unstable, the only one who's deserving ridicule here is you. I wonder how a discussion with you in real life would go down. There are so many small things in life that you hate. There simply seems to be so few things that bring you joy, and if there exist anything, it's usually followed by something you hate in contrast. I don't know if I've ever read you enjoy something without bringing up something that bugs you as well. And fuck dude, even after people has called you out for being overly aggressive and angry towards other users, you've just delved deeper. At this point it's just tragic. I never even said that FF was that bad, but that's just ain't good enough for ya I guess. When you come to the US, we can go to the Galloping Ghost (http://www.gallopingghostarcade.com/). Then we can drive by the McDonalds where Melee is bitching about your interpretation of art while stealing their WiFi. |
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,838
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Post by Balder on Mar 9, 2019 9:51:59 GMT
Yes, in fact I have studied forms of art, but I have not created art myself in school. You may have studied art as well, but your understanding of it is so subjective that it's been wasted on you. You're so incredibly unstable, the only one who's deserving ridicule here is you. I wonder how a discussion with you in real life would go down. There are so many small things in life that you hate. There simply seems to be so few things that bring you joy, and if there exist anything, it's usually followed by something you hate in contrast. I don't know if I've ever read you enjoy something without bringing up something that bugs you as well. And fuck dude, even after people has called you out for being overly aggressive and angry towards other users, you've just delved deeper. At this point it's just tragic. I never even said that FF was that bad, but that's just ain't good enough for ya I guess. When you come to the US, we can go to the Galloping Ghost (http://www.gallopingghostarcade.com/). Then we can drive by the McDonalds where Melee is bitching about your interpretation of art while stealing their WiFi. In two years this can become a reality. I'm going to the US in the summer of 2021, and this sounds like an excellent idea. |
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,614
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Post by scipioafricanus on Mar 9, 2019 14:36:07 GMT
When you come to the US, we can go to the Galloping Ghost (http://www.gallopingghostarcade.com/). Then we can drive by the McDonalds where Melee is bitching about your interpretation of art while stealing their WiFi. In two years this can become a reality. I'm going to the US in the summer of 2021, and this sounds like an excellent idea. Have to watch Commando first. |
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Post by winnersdontusedrugs on Mar 9, 2019 15:53:51 GMT
Have to watch Commando first. I'm pretty sure it's on the US citizenship test. |
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centipede
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
It was just one soy latte, I swear!
Posts: 2,809 
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Post by centipede on Mar 10, 2019 3:41:20 GMT
Aren't you guys done REEing yet? Take it outside, love birds.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Mar 11, 2019 2:06:40 GMT
Yes, in fact I have studied forms of art, but I have not created art myself in school. You may have studied art as well, but your understanding of it is so subjective that it's been wasted on you. You're so incredibly unstable, the only one who's deserving ridicule here is you. I wonder how a discussion with you in real life would go down. There are so many small things in life that you hate. There simply seems to be so few things that bring you joy, and if there exist anything, it's usually followed by something you hate in contrast. I don't know if I've ever read you enjoy something without bringing up something that bugs you as well. And fuck dude, even after people has called you out for being overly aggressive and angry towards other users, you've just delved deeper. At this point it's just tragic. I never even said that FF was that bad, but that's just ain't good enough for ya I guess. When you come to the US, we can go to the Galloping Ghost (http://www.gallopingghostarcade.com/). Then we can drive by the McDonalds where Melee is bitching about your interpretation of art while stealing their WiFi. "Stealing" their free Wifi is a small trade-off for the millions of square miles of tropical rainforest that McDonalds and other fast food companies have destroyed over the years. |
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