ModdedCentipede
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Post by ModdedCentipede on May 25, 2019 22:22:11 GMT
This week, it's the Phantom Menace, which turns 20 this week. Chosen by: Darth Spirit Bomb ![]()  Starring: Liam Neeson, Alec Guinness, Natalie Portman, Jake Lloyd, Kenny Baker, Anthony Daniels Directed by : 'Curious' George Lucas Produced by : Gavin Bocquet Written by: 'Bi-curious' George Lucas |
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centipede
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It was just one soy latte, I swear!
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Post by centipede on May 25, 2019 22:39:02 GMT
Episode I is twenty, more or less,
But was this good progress?
The old audiences said 'no',
Also, Stratogustav wants to know:
"Oi, where's me Cloud Atlas?'
And I tell him: 'Hey, don't freak!
I teleported it to next week'
So, come again and see
this thing made by the Brothers Wachowski,
which sounds like it's unique.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on May 25, 2019 22:57:02 GMT
It's been some years since I last saw this, but you know what? I don't think this is as bad anymore as I once did. In the light of the Disney produced Star Wars movies, The Phantom Menace stands out. It's way more original than any of the sequel movies. It feels very much like a Star Wars movie to me, and the world building is great. Don't get this confused with story writing or dialogue writing. George Lucas sure knows how to write something epic and rich, he just has some problems with writing key scenes that tie everything together. The big picture is magnificent. There are quite a few awesome scenes in this: pod-race and the fight with Darth Maul always get me excited. The score by John Williams is brilliant (Duel of Fates is one of the best tracks in all of SW). This movie has got a lot of undeserved flak over the years. Sure it has some fundamental flaws, but most of these are minor compared to the factory produced Disney crap. This at least had a vision behind it. I'm glad that a lot of people have started to appreciate it more over the years. It used to be my least favorite SW film, but now I think it's better than all of the Disney ones except VII and it's also better than II. 3.5 or 4/5, I haven't watched it in 4 or 5 years so I can't pin point what I'd give it right now.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on May 26, 2019 0:14:04 GMT
Oh no, not me, I'm never in a hurry with any of my suggestions.
About the topic, I actually loved the Phantom Menace when I saw it on theaters, but that has to do with my age at the time, and because I was already pumped up after watching Episode IV, Episode V, and Episode VI in theaters.
For me it was a big deal to watch them all in theaters because at the time they were 20 years old, released before I was even born, and I felt lucky they decided to put them on theaters again.
I also thought Episode I Racing on the N64 wasn't bad, and the Sega deluxe arcade version was actually awesome.
The Phantom Menace theme song by John Williams is pretty cool in my opinion, so no wonder the tune itself was a big hit.
On top of that Darth Mau is a pretty cool looking enemy with his devilish looks, and his badass double-bladed lightsaber.
Finally, when it come to Jar Jar Binks, he was not even in my radar. I was able to successfully block him from my attention as some kind of NPC.
In retrospect I was in fact fascinating with the story of Darth Vader, and how he slowly changed into what he became, so seeing him as a good kid, and then turn into the enemy two movies later, was unexpected for me at the time.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on May 26, 2019 6:07:54 GMT
Nah, I still find it incredibly childish and boring. By childish, I don't mean "made for kids", but "apparently written by a 5 y.o.". I don't even like the fights in this one, as they feel over-choreographed: it looks more like dancing than fighting and just lacks weight, I far prefer the fights in the original trilogy, which felt more like samurai duels.
That said, if you pick apart the movie and see it as a bunch of unrelated video game cutscenes, then I guess there's something to appreciate. It's quite obvious that Lucas thought about a bunch of "cool scenes" before tying them to a story, so it feels a bit disjointed - we end up remembering a list of best scenes instead of remembering the actual movie. I have watched it three or four times and still can't remember how its story goes.
I know there are countless videos and reviews pointing out the problems with the movie, but I find the following one nice because it discusses the good themes and philosophy of the movie before arguing about how it fails to properly develop them. Most of the reason ends up being the characters' complete lack of agency, which is something I can agree with.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on May 26, 2019 13:08:38 GMT
Finally, when it come to Jar Jar Binks, he was not even in my radar. I was able to successfully block him from my attention as some kind of NPC. Your Kung-Fu is strong.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on May 26, 2019 13:53:56 GMT
Hahaha nice one, we kind of had to. I know you said is not, but it kind of was. As a kid you are more easily impressed. Specially Natalie, she was definitely impressive. |
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Post by winnersdontusedrugs on May 26, 2019 15:48:56 GMT
Best lightsaber fight in the series hands down. Naboo is also one of my personal favorite Star Wars locations. Also, excellent mix of CG and physical effects. The movie doesn't stand too well on it's own however, and is more a setup for the next two movies. Even when I was a kid I though most of the Tatooine section was boring.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on May 26, 2019 16:08:59 GMT
Wow people have really different opinions on this movie. Just look at that spread.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on May 26, 2019 21:22:20 GMT
I know you said is not, but it kind of was. As a kid you are more easily impressed. Specially Natalie, she was definitely impressive. Natalie is always impressive, sure!  I agree, so let me rephrase it: I don't disagree that it's made for kids, but a "made for kids" movie can still trust in the intelligence of its audience, be deep and written intelligently (like most Pixar movies, Studio Ghibli stuff, The NeverEnding Story etc.). The usual excuse of "The Phantom Menace was written for kids, so the flaws are forgivable!" doesn't work because Pixars' Wall-E and Up were also made for kids, and yet we don't have to make excuses for them. I consider TPM childish not because it's for kids, but because its writing is very inconsistent - like it was written by a kid who was inventing stuff as it was going along. Now that I think about it, TPM is all over the place when it comes to being a kids' movie: Jar Jar Binks and kid Anakin are obviously there to attract kids, but at the same time the story of the film is about trade federations, embargoes, congress hearings and there's a dude being cut in half. Let's look again at the opening text crawl, emphasis mine: "Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute. Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Trade Federation has stopped all shipping to the small planet of Naboo. While the congress of the Republic endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, the Supreme Chancellor has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, to settle the conflict...." That must be the most boring premisse for a kids' movie. Taxation of trade routes, seriously?That's why I feel Lucas thought a bunch of cool scenes (which are, indeed, very damn cool, like the Pod Race) and the main story in different moments, then tried to put them together. It's like the movie couldn't decide between being for kids or for an older audience, fans of the original trilogy. Of course, there's no problem in appreciating the movie for what it does right, either: it's visually imaginative, has exciting setpieces, the music is as great as always (Duel of Fates, man!) and it helped establishing Natalie Portman as a famous actress. |
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Balder
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Post by Balder on May 26, 2019 22:30:56 GMT
Cervantes I totally agree with you that this is far from a perfect film. It's very uneven at times and that sucks. No matter how many fan theories are made, Jar Jar Binks will always be the Jar Jar Binks of the Star Wars franchise. He's so bad that he's a measurement for every bad character ever. Nothing will ever fix this film, but I rather have an attempt at making something original than those awful Disney ticket sellers. George Lucas didn't need the money. He made these movies because he loves Star Wars. Disney bought Star Wars to make more money. It doesn't matter what they produce as long as it makes money. Lucas could have made as many SW movies as he wanted to and make a ton of money. Disney doesn't care if their movies are poorly received as long as they make money. Even though people hated VIII, Disney still green-lit a Rian Johnson trilogy because it made money. They've now finally stopped announcing more SW movies because Solo didn't perform too well. They halted production of the Obi-Wan film even though that was the one spin-off film fans were excited for.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on May 27, 2019 11:32:00 GMT
Cervantes, I feel Pixar, and Star Wars are the opposite in that regard, Pixar movies are made for kids with adults in mind, while Star Wars is made for adults with kids in mind, so the results are opposite. Here they just did it too much for the kids. Most likely to have a more innocent mood that would have a bigger impact when Anakin became part of the dark side. I probably liked it that much because of my age at the time, hence my deep appreciation for Natalie. In terms of Disney, Solo tanked because it was released on a time everyone is almost on vacation, only 5 months after The Last Jedi. They left December for Mortal Engines which is not even Disney, and it tanked as well because no one cared. I guarantee you if they would had switched those up, it would have been at least better for both.
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on May 30, 2019 4:56:57 GMT
The Phantom Menace is by far my favorite of the Star Wars prequels and I would honestly rank it just below the original trilogy films. I seem to feel about Phantom Menace the same way longtime fans feel about The Force Awakens in that Phantom Menace was for me a promising (though flawed) starting point for a new trilogy of Star Wars films, and both Episode II and III were let downs for me. With Phantom Menace, I could complain about the atrocious aspects of the film like Jar Jar or the "kid saves the world" climactic plot point, but for every problem I have with Phantom Menace there are at least two things that I absolutely love. For starters, let me just copy/paste the part of winnersdontusedrugs post that I fully 100% agree with: "Best lightsaber fight in the series hands down. Naboo is also one of my personal favorite Star Wars locations. Also, excellent mix of CG and physical effects."
This. I feel the same way, winnerdontusedrugs. Words can't describe how impressed I still am to this day by the outstanding artistic aspects of the film, such as the saber fights and the extensive world building of Naboo, showing us more of that planet than we ever saw of the previous ones like Hoth, Endor, Dagobah, and even Tatooine. Naboo is my favorite Star Wars planet and has always felt the most fleshed-out than any of the others. The stunt work in the film is incredible, with the duel against Darth Maul at the end being the highlight of the series' stuntwork, IMO. Even when I look past the elaborate art direction, I'm still left satisfied with the other parts film. For example the dialogue is very tolerable, the main reason being that Lucas didn't give the human characters any horrible comedic banter like he did in Ep. II & III, but I also really enjoyed the character of Qui Gon Jinn a lot. I feel like he was the only memorable jedi introduced in the prequels. Over all the writing and characterization of the protagonists (sans Jar Jar) in Ep. I felt very serious & were much more in line with the OT films than II & III. ...I'm drawing a blank right for what to say next as it's late for me, but I will just end by saying that The Phantom Menace, though terrible in some regards, is hands down one of the most interesting sci-fi films I've ever seen, and easily one of the most significant films of its kind from the 90s. Because I'm able to look past its flaws, it's a 5/5 film for me. It has really grown on me over the years. I should celebrate its 20th anniversary by watching it again. |
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Balder
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Post by Balder on May 30, 2019 7:20:26 GMT
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Jun 1, 2019 10:18:01 GMT
I just want to point out two more important things I love about Phantom Menace:
-Out of all the Star Wars films, it had the strongest environmentalist message. The Trade Federation's destruction of the rainforests of Naboo was something that always painted them as a clear villainous force (don't laugh at me please). I think the only other SW movie that rivals Phantom Menace in this regard was ROTJ, which also had a subplot involving saving the fauna of a planet (Endor) from an evil force.
-A lot of people may not agree with me on this, but I strongly admire Lucas's decision not to do focus group tests and instead make the film his way. The Star Wars prequels were unique in that they were one of the very few self-financed big budget epics in the history of cinema; since George Lucas was the chairman of his own production company, Lucasarts, he didn't have to worry about studio interference and therefore could make the films exactly how he envisioned them. This is always a very important aspect for an artist in any medium of art. I'm a strong advocate for artist's freedom of expression, so I approve of this decision.
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