Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,820
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Post by Balder on Oct 26, 2016 19:30:21 GMT
So again we're back to the question on Mark's Patreon campaign. In his latest update he suggests stop using YouTube for good and only on Patreon. This means that people will no longer be able to watch his reviews for free (which is somewhat understandable in this day and age). This will also mean that we no longer have the convenience of watching it on YT, which sucks because YT works on all platforms.
My thoughts: This will be the final nail in the coffin for CGR. It will not kill it right away, but slowly. No newcomers can discover CGR since he will not be present on YT anymore. I will generally be watching less of his videos since I tend to use my Xbox to view YT. And him making everything paid for with introducing no new features sucks (he's also getting rid of the podcast). He blames it on his Patreon campaign getting lower (which is a fact), but he's still getting paid way more than people like MetalJesusRocks and Game Sack. For some reason I can't see what the hell is making at the moment, it only says it's 79 % of what he wants.
Anyways, thought guys?
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Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Oct 26, 2016 21:16:29 GMT
Yeah, he hid the actual amount. Kinda shady.
Playing devil's advocate, this could be a good thing. No more worrying about copyright claims against the videos for using in-game music/footage in completely legal ways. The Patreon support has been steadily going down, but at some point it will level off at something still well beyond what other channels like CGR are making. If Mark can live with that, then the substantial decrease in viewership might not bother him.
But that's the biggest negative: a much smaller audience. It's already way down from the pre-DailyMotion days. Only the super hardcore fans would be left.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,452
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Post by stratogustav on Oct 26, 2016 21:42:36 GMT
I send him a message to see if he would feature us as he said he was going to before, but I got not response this time.
About the new business model, most big business people I hear interviews about say that the money is in grabbing audiences in their own platform.
For example if you are in Twitch your content should be ready to go on that platform, adapted to that specific format, not making them go to a different platform. Basically don't send someone from Facebook to Twitter or from Twitter to Soundcloud, etc..
If you are in Facebook, post content in Facebook, if you are in Twitch, post content in Twitch. Of course you will be limited by the format of those platforms, so again you'll basically adapt to that format. On Instagram you posts images, on YouTube you post videos, etc..
You don't alienate non paying costumers either because those are very important in making your name grow. Basically every one is important even if they don't support it financially because it makes the name grow.
They all conclude that's the most effective way to increase revenue over time. If someone would send these interviews to Mark, maybe he he would change his mind.
Usually the ones talking about this come from corporate like companies such as IGN founders where they have multiple people working. They hire people familiar for each social network to target specifically that social network, like someone that knows about Snapchat is all focused about Snapchat, or someone that is all about Pinterest is all focused about Pinterest.
Mark is an one man army, but he has shown over the years he is an alien machine when it comes to pouring out content, I'm very confident he still has a lot of room to grow far beyond where he is right now if he makes the right decisions.
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dschult3
CGR Undertow Groupie
The true heir to the Monado.
Posts: 2,755
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Post by dschult3 on Oct 27, 2016 1:51:31 GMT
I really don't know what to think about CGR anymore. I'm still a huge fan, but I don't know about the direction he is taking the ship. I still like the content, but I don't understand many of the decisions he is making. He really seemed to annoy a lot of the fan base with the "Who Defeats?" series. I wonder if he took a hit on the Patreon campaign over that. The quality of the videos has risen in the last few months, but I don't think that relying on a small fan base will continue the show. Old school gamers aren't growing in number anymore, so you have to keep the content available to everyone. Younger kids are really interested in the history of gaming, but they will be turned off by limitations like this. I hope he leaves some free content available. If he doesn't, I agree with Balder . This may be the end.
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Post by winnersdontusedrugs on Oct 27, 2016 2:08:38 GMT
I gotta admit, when I heard Mark opened up a patreon I did not expect things would end up this way only a year later. Telling Youtube to fuck off is something Mark has done before, sure. But the rest seems so bizzare and something I would never expect from Mark.
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Oct 27, 2016 3:44:44 GMT
In all honesty, I think Mark should just end his internet career and move on to bigger and better things. He has a lot of skills that many employers would see as valuable. He spent a good chunk of his adult life making documentaries, which he must've been able to make a living off of, so why doesn't he go back to doing that? Did he not enjoy it? It's undoubtedly harder work than running the CGR show, but if it pays better, and looks better on a resume, then why not do it again?
He's been to college, right? He seems to be very skilled at making pen and ink artwork, and he has outstanding taste in art, so he would probably enjoy being a graphic artist or something along those lines. Assuming he has an artistic degree, why doesn't he consider doing that?
He has tons of opportunities that many people don't have. If he's worried about money that much, then he should find a better paying job.
I like CGR. I've been a loyal fan since 2009, but I think it has run its course by this point, and I'm not going to start paying to see the latest uploads.
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,820
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Post by Balder on Oct 27, 2016 7:01:23 GMT
I totally agree with dschult3 on this. There exists an interest in younger people too, but this stuff is just going to alienate them. And as we've seen before, this community isn't getting bigger, it's more the other way around. Anyways, Mark has given us another update. He won't be leaving YT for good, but the YT reviews will be butchered Patreon reviews. It's better than nothing I guess.
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Post by Imperial Khador on Oct 27, 2016 9:36:25 GMT
Not going to mess around with the quote function Balder - I'm not how much this would limit potential new viewers compared to now. The view rate for the newer videos is a few thousand, but he hasn't pulled down any of the Mark II videos, and they're still the ones with the higher views...that said, I would prefer to see all the CGR content on Youtube, including the behind the scenes Patreon stuff. Most of the Patreons I'm part of are either: 1. Time exclusives only. This could be rough drafts of writing, early edits of podcasts, or just getting stuff a week before it goes public. 2. Limited extra content (The Easy Allies, made up of the former GameTrailers staff are a good example of this). These are usually occasional things, like the Q&A's Mark has done before, or just intermittent vlogs. The majority of the content is either released freely or timed release. 3. Tip jars (LoadingReadyRun) is a good example of this. These tend to be folks who are at least somewhat popular already, and have a fair bit of fan engagement. I think Mark works best as a combination of the first two. Dan E. Kool - I can see how hiding the Patreon numbers could seem Shady, but I also know a fair amount of people who scale back their Patreon contributions or drop them entirely because they feel it is 'doing well enough'. Beyond that...well, it isn't like I disclose my income publicly, let alone pre-tax, so I can't blame Mark for doing the same I do appreciate that he's soliciting advice on this one, and I left some fairly extensive comments on the Patreon. I think part of the problem with the non-Patreon Youtube audience is that they don't get a lot of the context provided in the behind the scenes Patreon updates. So things like yanking full reviews from Youtube probably seemed to come out of left field. That said, I think we knew it would be a bumpy year, and if Mark decides not to continue, we still got a lot of great reviews out of it, and we have years of back content to enjoy. I don't necessarily agree with meleemaestro that it is time to throw in the towel, but I do agree that Mark has plenty of other skills and that he'll land on his feet regardless of how things turn out with CGR.
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centipede
CGR Undertow Groupie
It was just one soy latte, I swear!
Posts: 2,678
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Post by centipede on Oct 27, 2016 11:26:27 GMT
In his latest update he suggests stop using YouTube for good and only on Patreon. This means that people will no longer be able to watch his reviews for free (which is somewhat understandable in this day and age). That might be the problem: he isn't making enough because people are taking the free uploads to YT for granted. And he needs it more than ever since he has a kid to support. I got to admit, I don't think the show has been the same since mkII ended, but I'm glad he's reviewing toys again. Those are always entertaining. You know, I've been very stingy with money this year, but perhaps it's about time I made a contribution. I'd like one of these CGR beer steins, despite the fact that I'm actively trying to reduce my total of earthly possessions (and that is why I still haven't bought a Wii).
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Post by manicottimafia on Oct 27, 2016 15:15:15 GMT
I'm gonna be real.
CGR always had the most basic, non-scripted reviews out there. It's usually mark sitting in one room playing a game saying "hey this is awwwwesom! Truxton amiright? SPACE! New Jersey!" and stuff like that. He hardly ever goes in depth on what actually makes a game good. I mean I like the cool easy-going vibe, but CGR isn't really much of a huge production.
I mean I love CGR, but I honestly think you can't and shouldn't expect people to pay you 100 grand annually (which is huge, especially when considering CGR has very little production compared to other such channels) for such a basic show. I know personally I don't think it's worth paying for at all. I like it as free content I can blow 5 minutes on in a day, but it just doesn't have enough meat for me to pay for it. That being said, I think the thing that makes CGR great is how it has more volume than depth. Mark has videos on everything and that's awesome but it brings up another point: It's growing old. There are already reviews for most every system, and even if there are some big-game reviews that have yet to been made, they would be just like all the other CGR reviews anyway. And especially now that it's just mark alone and there's no space arcade, the formula is stale.
I mean I really hate to say it, but if Mark isn't happy with making what he is then he should just move on. Clearly he needs to be a part of bigger projects.
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Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Oct 27, 2016 17:11:28 GMT
Well, it isn't like I disclose my income publicly, let alone pre-tax, so I can't blame Mark for doing the same A very fair point. manicottimafia Respect that honesty.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Oct 27, 2016 19:03:16 GMT
"We need to talk..." *runs*
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Post by lilchillbil on Oct 27, 2016 22:16:36 GMT
Out of 446,563 Subscribers the people here care the most about CGR, enough that most of us support the Patreon. And i'm okay with CGR moving on
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,811
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Post by Cervantes on Oct 28, 2016 6:16:12 GMT
It seems Mark decided to dial back a bit. I'll just quote him:
I do agree with this. I mean, I didn't back his show to get exclusive access to his reviews; I backed it because I wanted the show to continue existing. So, even if Mark had kept things the same as they were before Patreon, I (and I believe most backers) would still back it. That's why I said on another topic that anything for backers should be "extra" stuff; I never agreed with the main reviews being exclusive to Patreon - of course, I have no problems with the Patreon reviews having a few extra scenes, as long as the main review on Youtube doesn't turn in just an ad for the Patreon campaign.
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,820
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Post by Balder on Oct 28, 2016 7:01:53 GMT
well, it isn't like I disclose my income publicly, let alone pre-tax, so I can't blame Mark for doing the same But we're the ones paying him. I think it would be alright for us to know. Over here in Norway every one has the right to see what people make. There's a register which anyone can view (well you've got to log in). Not saying that that's right, but since we're paying him, we should be able to see it.
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