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Post by teddykongcountry on Dec 30, 2016 5:06:41 GMT
When I look back on Mark's foray into the new year, I will remember it being one that not just a year that he but a year that we as well had to suffer through. It's been a year plagued by worries about money, worries about Youtube as a service, lots of experimenting to make crowdfunding viable, lots of negative response to said crowdfunding and in general, a whole lack of Undertow.
I invited a close friend who some of you who may have watched share video reviews on the old CGR site under the name Frick 'n Frack/Super Hyper Turbo Games/Viewtiful_Al3x to discuss how we felt about CGR 1 year after the initial scare that they might leave Youtube. I will tell you now, this has not been the most pleasant year for recollecting on CGR but I found it important to speak up about our thoughts and feelings on the direction of the channel especially as both of us are rooted CGR fans at our cores.
Although it seems like we might be overly critical, it's important to remember that we are speaking out of our own realistic reactions towards what has happened over the past year and I will say that Alex was far more optimistic regarding the sustenance of CGR earlier in the year.
The things that have bothered me the most as a viewer but not a patron include but are not limited to: 1. Lack of unified structure - It's been a year now and it still feels like Mark is figuring out what he's doing whether putting content on Youtube, off Youtube, on Amazon Prime, etc. He ought to pick one and stick with it. 2. Fear effect - Fear of content going off Youtube hence the CGR supreme, fear of CGR disappearing if it's not funded to a certain tier, fear of missing out on content like exclusive podcasts if I don't pay soon enough. These are probably not intentional on his behalf but when I come to Youtube, it's not to worry about content disappearing, it's to see someone do something they love. 3. Constant, obnoxious advertising - It just doesn't gel with me. When I sit down to watch a review now, it's basically a billboard saying the review is on a USB compilation, the show is funded by backers on Patreon and that I should be one of them and if I'm not, I must not want CGR to continue, the review is on Amazon Prime, oh and there's merchandise I won't be able to afford on his shop. It's becoming less about the content and more about the extras even if it doesn't feel like his intention.
In spite of what seems like a lot of negative attention, I sat down and watched several of his December reviews and will say that I feel he is starting to get his groove back but I don't think he's 100% there yet. I know Mark is very capable of making his videos classic again and it's as simple as making a few cosmetic changes.
This might seem like bickering but the point is that if this is how I feel as a longtime fan, how is someone who's never seen CGR before going to react when their first CGR video is littered with all of this crap?
But anyways, I've been talking about the status of CGR for over a year now, I'd like to know how you feel about CGR in 2016 and where you want to see him go heading forward.
Here's to a great year ahead! ~teddykongcountry
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,811
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 30, 2016 5:48:43 GMT
It was a very rocky year, wasn't it? I do agree with everything you said, except I would say that Mark has restablished his rythm for the last two months or so - to be more precise, I think he finally found his jam when he put out that video in which he talked more openly about his issues with Youtube. It was after that that he decided to consult people on Patreon if he should only put previews on Youtube or whole videos, and was also when he decided to cool down on the low-quality content - that is, the likes of WhoDefeatz and the excessive stream of unboxing videos. That was when he decided to just focus on his longer reviews, give them an exclusive time on Patreon, then put them out on Youtube. So, all in all, for the last two months or so I've been enjoying CGR just like I did in previous years, and I even think Mark got better at it: the reviews are getting more well produced overall, and I feel he is finding more things to say about the games, so the reviews are getting back to be as informative as they are funny. That said, I still miss his interactions with Brandon and Derek, since the show was just more lively when they were acting together... Also, I'm glad the Kickstarters were a success, but I hope Mark doesn't use them so constantly. I don't know how to articulate it, but I feel the Patreon + constant Kickstarters might just get too demanding for the fanbase. I think he should take a little more time between Kickstarter projects, or future projects will run the risk of just not having enough funding (I for one wouldn't have enough money if he did another project for the next few months). TL;DR: The show got better towards the end of the year, and I think next year will be great.Edit: By the way, teddykongcountry , I'm following your videos and you are getting really good at them, your reviews are great. The CGR video I'm talking about is this one:
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,820
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Post by Balder on Dec 30, 2016 11:35:58 GMT
I lean more towards Cervantes. CGR has had some low points this year, but I am staying positive. There has been a couple of really good videos in the latest months. And I'm looking forward to next year.
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Post by teddykongcountry on Dec 31, 2016 6:22:28 GMT
Cervantes - hey man, I respect the respect, especially coming from a fellow teacher I saw that Youtube video on Youtube about Youtube previously but I also feel it beats around the bush a bit. At this point, I don't think anyone has a problem with the fact that Mark has to use Patreon to fund his show, it's moreso the execution. Even looking at the December videos, it's still experimental with the slide in the beginning and the condensed shoutouts (if you can call them 'shoutouts') at the end. He did say that the 'ad-free' videos are on Patreon but are they free of the watermarks for Patreon and other service announcements? If so, is that not preferential treatment? You did say you agree with me so I'm not attacking your views, I just have to question to what extent Mark is seriously considering the logic of his decisions. If and when he gets it right, I will be a Patreon supporter. Over the past 12 months, he has ritually failed to convert me, a longtime CGR faithful, to make the Switch (hate to make Nintendo jokes). Let's see if in 2016 he makes a change Balder - good to know. Positive vibrations!
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Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Dec 31, 2016 15:10:57 GMT
He@cervantes did say that the 'ad-free' videos are on Patreon but are they free of the watermarks for Patreon and other service announcements? If so, is that not preferential treatment? If the people paying money aren't getting "preferential treatment" then what's even the point of paying?
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,820
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Post by Balder on Dec 31, 2016 16:43:02 GMT
He@cervantes did say that the 'ad-free' videos are on Patreon but are they free of the watermarks for Patreon and other service announcements? If so, is that not preferential treatment? If the people paying money aren't getting "preferential treatment" then what's even the point of paying? Paying Patreons should receive some rewards, but the non-paying viewers should not feel like they have to pay to enjoy the content. CGR is great on this, while companies like Rooster Teeth has almost abandoned everyone but their sponsor members.
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,811
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Post by Cervantes on Jan 3, 2017 6:23:00 GMT
teddykongcountry - Sorry for the late response, mate! About the "Mark reacts to youtube" video: the importance isn't in the video itself, but in the fact that Mark used that oportunity to listen to his fans. On the days before that video, he posted several questions on Patreon and received very good feedback from the community. Most people agreed that he should still keep his content on Youtube (instead of just previews or low quality videos), giving to Patreon only a short exclusivity time and maybe a slightly longer cut of the videos. Everyone also agreed that he should focus on his reviews, making them longer. Of course, there's still a preferential treatment towards Patreon backers: you get to see the videos around one week early, the videos have a few extra scenes (between 1-2 minutes of extra footage), no watermarks, no slides at the beginning. But, as Dan E. Kool and Balder said, it's fair that the backers get some rewards, provided that non-backers can still watch the show. Before, the problem was that non-backers weren't even getting the reviews anymore, as Mark had decided to only post previews instead of the full videos - so the reviews randomly stopped at some point and told viewers to see "the full review" on Patreon. I couldn't agree with that at all, and as most backers also voiced their concerns, Mark tried to find a better balance. I think he could still do some things better (like moving the slides to the end of the video and choosing a more discreet watermark), but, in general, I think there's a good balance: you can watch the full show without paying for it or have a few extra bits by becoming a patron. Another thing I do agree with you, though, is that the long shoutout at the end of each video is just not a very good choice: even if we always close the video before them, it's just strange that they're there in every video. I would prefer if it was limited to just that shoutout video he already does once a month. But what I keep thinking is: maybe some people are only backing the show to see/hear their names at the end of the reviews, so the show would maybe lose some backers if the shoutout were dropped. So, while I don't think the shoutout is a good idea, I understand why Mark keeps it. And oh man, don't talk about the Switch! Can you imagine a modern Nintendo console offering no backwards compatibility? That thought just pisses me off!
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Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Jan 3, 2017 8:39:49 GMT
And oh man, don't talk about the Switch! Can you imagine a modern Nintendo console offering no backwards compatibility? That thought just pisses me off! You mean like every console before the Wii?
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Jan 3, 2017 17:20:59 GMT
I probably didn't watch any CGR review in 2016, probably only EDF4.1 is what i've watched. Other than that, i've been watching the Game Room episodes and Mark's Sega Saturn reviews, because those are gold!
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,811
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Post by Cervantes on Jan 3, 2017 18:10:29 GMT
And oh man, don't talk about the Switch! Can you imagine a modern Nintendo console offering no backwards compatibility? That thought just pisses me off! You mean like every console before the Wii? Ha, that's true! But that's why I said modern. Anyway, let me rephrase that: "Can you imagine a Nintendo portable with no backwards compatibility?"
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
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Post by stratogustav on Jan 3, 2017 20:28:06 GMT
The lack of structure was the only downside for me.
Like for example, Monday can be a video game review, Friday a shout out, Thursday another review, Tuesday a gameplay video and Wednesday something random.
Having a structure really helps a show and just because it is YouTube it doesn't mean a time schedule cannot exist. You can easily say all videos will launch at 9 A.M. Pacific time or something like that, and that also helps.
A structure keeps track of all the hard work he is making and people feels satisfied with that because they can see that by not missing a schedule he is doing all the hard work they are supporting him for.
While having an unstructured show you have heavy weeks with awesome content and others not so much, so it leaves these mixed feelings people are experiencing.
About the content, I would say t is great as always and I have absolutely no complains in that department. Mark is a solid very charismatic guy. I feel the work he has done through out the years is what made him the way he is, and that's why we support him.
The lack of Undertow is definitely a big miss as both quality and quantity of the value they added was very important to the Universe they created overall, but it is understandable that's out of people's hands.
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licensedgames
Virtue Wing
"I'm Bartholomew Mashingspoon.'
Posts: 180
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Post by licensedgames on Jan 5, 2017 21:52:49 GMT
The lack of structure was the only downside for me. Like for example, Monday can be a video game review, Friday a shout out, Thursday another review, Tuesday a gameplay video and Wednesday something random. Having a structure really helps a show and just because it is YouTube it doesn't mean a time schedule cannot exist. You can easily say all videos will launch at 9 A.M. Pacific time or something like that, and that also helps. A structure keeps track of all the hard work he is making and people feels satisfied with that because they can see that by not missing a schedule he is doing all the hard work they are supporting him for. While having an unstructured show you have heavy weeks with awesome content and others not so much, so it leaves these mixed feelings people are experiencing. About the content, I would say t is great as always and I have absolutely no complains in that department. Mark is a solid very charismatic guy. I feel the work he has done through out the years is what made him the way he is, and that's why we support him. The lack of Undertow is definitely a big miss as both quality and quantity of the value they added was very important to the Universe they created overall, but it is understandable that's out of people's hands. The loss of Undertow made Cgr feel so much more empty. It's just one guy now. Inside jokes and even mild continuity thrown aside.
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Guilion
Lord Wing
Former Incompetent Evil Commander
Posts: 284
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Post by Guilion on Jan 6, 2017 3:05:16 GMT
Well, have you ever heard the saying "You never know what you take for granted until you lose it"? Well, I sort of miss the rest of the crew. The show feels kind of .... empty without them.
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