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Post by Dan E. Moderator on Dec 2, 2018 21:21:52 GMT
It seems we've veered off of the Holiday movie path we were on, but I guess that's OK? This Week: Final Fantasy The Spirits Within Chosen by: MeleeMonk Released: 2001 Starring: Ming-Na, Alec Baldwin, James Woods, Donald Sutherland, Steve Buscemi Director: Hironobu Sakaguchi, Motonori Sakakibara Producer: Chris Lee, Akio Sakai Writer: Al Reinert, Jeff Vintar, Hironobu Sakaguchi |
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,820
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 3, 2018 0:52:01 GMT
Oh boy, not this one!
The way I see it, Spirits Within is just a very mediocre sci-fi movie, a direct-to-video kind of one. Not terrible, but not worth the ticket to watch it. But then, it has the best CG from that era and it manages to be impressive looking at some points.
That's why I'm throwing a 3/5 to it.
Besides that, it should be pointed out that the movie has barely anything to do with any game in the series, besides, maybe, the general "save Gaia" themes.
I like this ProJared review of it:
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Post by Imperial Khador on Dec 3, 2018 1:06:48 GMT
Randomly, this released on my birthday that year.
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,572 
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Post by scipioafricanus on Dec 3, 2018 1:36:56 GMT
I remember thinking, the hair was well done, at the time.
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Dec 3, 2018 2:55:36 GMT
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, a long-forgotten milestone in computer animation that unfortunately didn't get the respect it deserved. I watched it for the first time two weeks ago and thoroughly enjoyed it, especially the complex character designs, fluid animation, art direction and overall production values. And like any good japanese animated film, the characters have realistic personalities, the storyline is serious, there are no musical numbers or comedy relief...in other words, it's highly respectable on a dramatic level as well. It's all around a very impressive, interesting and respectable work of art, and for that I happily award it 5/5. It was truly the Crysis of feature-length CGI for its time. It's a shame the film failed, but it's no real surprise considering it was aimed at american audiences, a demographic which has never shown interest in supporting ambitious animation. Based on what I read on the Wikipedia page the film barely had any marketing in countries outside of the US, and I'm not even sure it was ever released theatrically in Japan. With a budget of over $140 million, the film did so poorly that the studio who made it closed down shortly afterwards, making Final Fantasy The Spirits Within their only film. That's just depressing. And reviews for the film were mixed at best. Typical american film critic response to art. So while most of America disliked Spirits Within, I sure as hell didn't. For ages I had always wondered why 3D anime was never a thing, but then just recently I discovered Spirits Within and found the answer.  Money. Oh well, at least Japan's awe-inspiring 3D animation lived on in video games: |
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Dec 3, 2018 2:58:09 GMT
I remember thinking, the hair was well done, at the time. Congratulations. You earned a like from me. How does it feel? |
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Dec 3, 2018 4:22:57 GMT
Alec Baldwin was on a Final Fantasy movie? That alone shows how huge the series was.
I have never seen any of the movies, or played any of the games, but I remember liking this song from Advent Children called "One Winged Angel":
I always thought Zakk Wylde was doing all those harmonics, LOL!
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,572
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Post by scipioafricanus on Dec 3, 2018 12:23:18 GMT
I remember thinking, the hair was well done, at the time. Congratulations. You earned a like from me. How does it feel?  |
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Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Dec 4, 2018 16:25:08 GMT
I remember thinking, the hair was well done, at the time. Congratulations. You earned a like from me. How does it feel? Here, have one from me, too! In fact, everyone is getting a like!  |
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Dec 9, 2018 4:24:42 GMT
Regarding what Cervantes said about the film having next to nothing in common with the games, I personally think that's a very good thing, at least from a visual perspective. If Final Fantasy The Spirits Within had the same simplified, bishonen character designs as Final Fantasy 7,  I would never have watched it. Advent Children came out many years later using this visual style and it looked like garbage compared to Spirits Within. |
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,820
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 9, 2018 15:51:05 GMT
MeleeMonk - I was not really thinking about the visual style, but now that you mention it... See, you have to remember that FF had a very distinct, imaginative, complex and colorful style before FF7, courtesy of the dreaming drawings of Yoshitaka Amano:   The fact is that, while the movie should be praised by how realistic the CGI looked at the time (it's incredible!), I think most of the visual style looks very drab, in an "average sci-fi" kind of way. It just lost most of the "Fantasy" part of Final Fantasy. At the time, I remember having just played a few hours of FF8 and thinking some of its CG scenes looked much more artistically creative. As for negative reviews, you do have to admit that the movie has a lot of problems in characterization and plot. Albeit humorous, that ProJared video I linked above discusses some of the major problems - the truth is, if this movie had been made with actors, it would just not be seen as a very good one. It's pretty much on the middle ground between, let's say, Starship Troopers and Avatar, which are all average sci-fi movies in my opinion. That's not to say FF doesn't look impressive. It does, and it's one of the most important milestones in CG. I hugely appreciate it for that and remember being impressed by the visuals when I watched it in the theater. But, even then, I didn't think of it as a great movie.
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Dec 12, 2018 0:47:09 GMT
Cervantes Good points. But as a devout lover of realism, I'm just so happy Spirits Within exists. I've never seen another CGI film that comes as close to having as impressive character models as Spirits Within. All of our american CGI films that I grew up with look cartoony and crude. I absolutely hate it.
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Dlotn
Strong Wing
One of my biggest regrets: Making trades and bets with Balder
Posts: 214
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Post by Dlotn on Dec 12, 2018 11:51:36 GMT
Cervantes Good points. But as a devout lover of realism, I'm just so happy Spirits Within exists. I've never seen another CGI film that comes as close to having as impressive character models as Spirits Within. All of our american CGI films that I grew up with look cartoony and crude. I absolutely hate it. Wait, what?! Those character models are shit if you compare it to more newer movies. You can even take an example from another Final Fantasy movie, Kingslaive. That movie looks pretty realistic. Or if you want something from 2001 that is much better then Spirit Within, Monster's Inc. Those character models are pretty stellar |
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Dec 14, 2018 2:42:26 GMT
Cervantes Good points. But as a devout lover of realism, I'm just so happy Spirits Within exists. I've never seen another CGI film that comes as close to having as impressive character models as Spirits Within. All of our american CGI films that I grew up with look cartoony and crude. I absolutely hate it. Wait, what?! Those character models are shit if you compare it to more newer movies. You can even take an example from another Final Fantasy movie, Kingslaive. That movie looks pretty realistic. Or if you want something from 2001 that is much better then Spirit Within, Monster's Inc. Those character models are pretty stellar is this your alt? Anyway, please don't take that objective tone with me. That remark about Monster's Inc is entirely subjective, and regarding Kingslaive: 1: I didn't know about it until you mentioned it, so I haven't seen it, 2: it's a japanese animated film just like Spirits Within, and 3: Regardless of how much you hate Spirits Within it had outstanding visual design for its time, and I'm merely expressing the enjoyment I got out of contemplating every moment of it. I don't know what your deal is. I don't know why you keep stalking me and harassing me with these endless outraged posts. But I find it hilarious that you have this adamant hatred for Spirits Within while praising this Kingsaive film which looks very similar artistically and received criticisms similar to Spirits Within. It doesn't matter if Spirits Within looks "outdated". That would be looking at it from a technological point of view, and I never look at art from that perspective. This is why I adore the look of Paper Mario 64 and despise Super Paper Mario. The latter may be newer and more high-res, but in the end PM 64 just had much more effort and passion put into the visual design. Same goes for Streets of Rage 3 compared to the upcoming SoR reboot. The level of detail in the former's sprites will never age. |
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Dlotn
Strong Wing
One of my biggest regrets: Making trades and bets with Balder
Posts: 214
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Post by Dlotn on Dec 14, 2018 9:31:05 GMT
Wait, what?! Those character models are shit if you compare it to more newer movies. You can even take an example from another Final Fantasy movie, Kingslaive. That movie looks pretty realistic. Or if you want something from 2001 that is much better then Spirit Within, Monster's Inc. Those character models are pretty stellar is this your alt? Anyway, please don't take that objective tone with me. That remark about Monster's Inc is entirely subjective, and regarding Kingslaive: 1: I didn't know about it until you mentioned it, so I haven't seen it, 2: it's a japanese animated film just like Spirits Within, and 3: Regardless of how much you hate Spirits Within it had outstanding visual design for its time, and I'm merely expressing the enjoyment I got out of contemplating every moment of it. I don't know what your deal is. I don't know why you keep stalking me and harassing me with these endless outraged posts. But I find it hilarious that you have this adamant hatred for Spirits Within while praising this Kingsaive film which looks very similar artistically and received criticisms similar to Spirits Within. It doesn't matter if Spirits Within looks "outdated". That would be looking at it from a technological point of view, and I never look at art from that perspective. This is why I adore the look of Paper Mario 64 and despise Super Paper Mario. The latter may be newer and more high-res, but in the end PM 64 just had much more effort and passion put into the visual design. Same goes for Streets of Rage 3 compared to the upcoming SoR reboot. The level of detail in the former's sprites will never age. I was planning on commenting on each separate point, but I couldn’t find out how to squeeze my writing into MeleeMaestro’s writing without looking like he said everything, that’s why I’m beginning all the “paragraphs” with the first few words of Maestro’s points, so it might be easier to see what I’m referencing . "Balder is this your alt" -MeleeMaestroSo, ehm, first of all. Fuck off with that “Balder is this your alt?” shit. I’m pretty new to this forum and by the looks of it, it’s Blader who has the most similar views as me, probably because we’re from the same place. "Anyway, please don't" -MeleeMaestroIt’s pretty difficult to understand my tone when reading what I’m writing. I do use a lot of curse words, but I don’t mean to use them in a harsh way. I just grew up with using a lot of curse words in my English while gaming and talking to friends. I’ll try to write in a more understanding way so this “tone” misunderstanding don’t happen again. English isn’t my mother tongue, anyone here should have that in mind whenever I write a stupid word or sentence. The remark about Monster’s Inc is obviously subjective, as are your claims. I’m not trying to say anything else. I’m just trying to get my thoughts on the topic out, but I did it in a pretty bad way… I’ll try to use less curse words while writing from now on. "1: I didn't" -MeleeMaestroKingslaive’s animation is pretty awesome, but the story is… Meh.. You should watch it. "2: It's a" -MeleeMaestroYour second point, I don’t really know what you mean by that. “It’s a Japanese animated film just like Spirited Within” That was why I brought it up. This was a Japanese animated film that I thought was much better in the animation quality, for good reason since it was created about 15 years after Spirit Within.
"3: Regardless of" -MeleeMaestroI have seen through all of my comments on Spirits Within, and I have never stated that I hated the movie. I said that I thought it had great ambitions, but the art direction wasn’t good. And I commented on some of your claims on the Incredibles and Spirits Within, but never stated that I hated it. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
"I don't know" -MeleeMaestroI am not trying to stalk and harass you, if I have done so I apologize. The reason why it seems that I have commented a lot on your post is because you have pretty much the opposite views on stuff then I do. I have pretty strong opinions and want to protect those opinions, but if you feel like I have harassed you in any way, I will keep it more PG. And I have never said that I hated Spirits Within, neither do I praise Kingslaive. I think Kingslaive have better animation then Spirit Within, and I know Kingslaive is made years after Spirit Within. I can respect Spirit Within, but there are other movies that I simply feel look better, even from the same time period.
"It doesn't matter" -MeleeMaestroI don’t have a lot to say on this point, but I do think there is some differences between movies and videogames when it comes to art direction. |
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Money.
