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Post by Dan E. Moderator on Dec 16, 2018 17:14:48 GMT
Everyone in the holiday spirit, yet? If you have a festive film you want to discuss, be sure to send it over. Not much time left! This Week: Batman Returns Chosen by: Dan E. KoolReleased: 1992 Starring: Michael Keaton, Dan E DeVito, Michelle Pfeiffer, Christopher Walken Director: Tim Burton Producer: Tim Burton, Denise Di Novi Writer: Daniel Waters, Sam Hamm
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Dec 16, 2018 17:27:40 GMT
Nothing gets one in the holiday spirit like watching Danny DeVito bite someone's nose off.
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Dlotn
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Post by Dlotn on Dec 16, 2018 18:47:18 GMT
I think this is a weird, but enjoyable Batman movie.
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cobretti
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Post by cobretti on Dec 16, 2018 19:46:25 GMT
Nothing gets one in the holiday spirit like watching Danny DeVito bite someone's nose off. Nothing gets me in the holiday spirit quite like watching Danny DeVito eat a raw fish.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 16, 2018 19:50:23 GMT
It's my second favourite Batman movie after The Dark Knight. I'm serious. I had even chosen it as my Christmas movie this year!
There's Danny DeVito being bizarre, Pfeiffer being hot and Christopher Walken being himself. It's heavily stylized, gross, violent and dark; it's a very different interpretation of Batman when compared to the Nolan movies, but I think this style fits the character very well - this is Tim Burton at his best.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Dec 16, 2018 22:58:29 GMT
I'm in the minority here, I guess, but I hate this movie. I loved its predecessor much more than this one. Nothing compared to Jack Nicholson's performance until the Nolan movies! It felt like this was dark just for the sake of being dark. The Penguin's backstory is stupid (I like Arkham's version much better.), and I really thought the Catwoman story line was messed up from the beginning. That fall should have killed her,and I suppose I couldn't get over it from there.
At least we got the insanely difficult Atari Lynx game out of this. (Make sure you duck behind the mail box and wait!)
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Dec 17, 2018 0:20:10 GMT
I'm in the minority here, I guess, but I hate this movie. I loved its predecessor much more than this one. Nothing compared to Jack Nicholson's performance until the Nolan movies! It felt like this was dark just for the sake of being dark. The Penguin's backstory is stupid (I like Arkham's version much better.), and I really thought the Catwoman story line was messed up from the beginning. That fall should have killed her,and I suppose I couldn't get over it from there. At least we got the insanely difficult Atari Lynx game out of this. (Make sure you duck behind the mail box and wait!) And a damn hard Atari Lynx game too. Fuck, I like it, but it's too hard to be highly enjoyable. If it was a little bit easier, that game could have been one of the best Lynx games.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Dec 17, 2018 0:29:12 GMT
And a damn hard Atari Lynx game too. Fuck, I like it, but it's too hard to be highly enjoyable. If it was a little bit easier, that game could have been one of the best Lynx games. If Jack Tramiel wasn't such a cheap bastard, a save state would have been nice. I beat it once in high school, and I haven't touched it since then. It was so aggravating!
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 17, 2018 3:06:57 GMT
I absolutely love Batman Returns. It's by far my favorite Batman movie and I enjoy it much, much more than Tim Burton's original Batman.
When it comes to art direction, both films are legendary, but I feel like Returns is ultimately superior here thanks to the outstanding wardrobe designs & make-up for The Penguin and Catwoman.
The expressionistic pen & ink look of the film seems like an odd choice for a comic book movie, but it's done so well that it left me wanting to see other Batman films with this visual style. On top of that, It's incredibly inspired. It was cool of Tim Burton to draw visual inspiration from silent films like London After Midnight and other horror classics, not to mention a very refreshing decision as well.
The casting is great, the villains are outstanding, the art direction is legendary...that's more than enough for me to give it a perfect 5/5, and I normally hate watching live action films.
It's a shame that Joel Schumacher took over the franchise after Batman Returns. Batman Forever was one of the most mediocre superhero films I have ever seen. Thankfully I quit while I was ahead and never watched Batman and Robin.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 17, 2018 15:47:34 GMT
As I see it, Batman is supposed to be more nightmarish than realistic. There are references to H. P. Lovecraft (Arkham), the villains are all psychos (hence an Asylum being such a prominent place in the series), the Joker is inspired by a horror character in a expressionist film and Batman himself preys on the fear of his enemies, using the darkness in his favor. It was supposed to be an inversion of the bright and optmistic Superman, and that's why I think the nightmare atmosphere that Burton was going for fits the character so well. Taking the expressionist art style as an inspiration was just genious, as it was already referenced in the series since the creation of the Joker (and Burton referenced it again with another character, Max Shreck).
Of course, it all depends on what one expects from a film adaptation. Some people prefer adaptations that make the source material look realistic (so the Nolan movies would be much better in that regard), others think the adaptation must be almost equal to the original (which is a problem, since Batman had various different representations in comics and tv until then); I do prefer highly stylized adaptations that take some liberty while keeping the original spirit - Burton changed the characters and their origin stories, but I do think he got the atmosphere of what Batman's world is supposed to be.
That said, The Dark Knight is such a good movie that even if it's not really my favourite depiction of Batman as far as atmosphere/art style goes, it's still my favourite Batman movie.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 17, 2018 15:52:43 GMT
By the way, I believe Danny DeVito had a blast playing the Penguin! He seems to really enjoy playing this type of character:
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Dec 17, 2018 21:28:12 GMT
I love the design, the atmosphere, the sets. It's all very unique and original, especially for a superhero movie, especially in a time before superhero movies were as common as they are today. An expressionist Batman is a cool thing to see. Danny Elfman's music is iconic. The Batmobile looks great.
And yet... The story and writing in general are really sub par. The same can be said of the 1989 film. Batman is hardly a character at all. He doesn't grow or evolve, he's just there. Contrast this with the villains, whose motivations are clear and defined, who get a lot more attention and screen time. Or contrast it with the Nolan films, where Batman and his struggle to be the hero are the focus.
Pfeiffer does well as Catwoman, but there are many times when two villains seems like too many. A separate movie with her as the villain would've been better, imo.
In all, I gave it a 4/5. It's got major shortcomings, but is still entertaining.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Dec 17, 2018 22:51:59 GMT
And yet... The story and writing in general are really sub par. The same can be said of the 1989 film. I feel the same way. Although it isn't as bad with the first one. Perhaps it was the novelty of it, but I like the first one much better. The Penguin's story is attempting to be comically dark, and I just don't feel it. Contrast that with the messed up, yet intriguing story behind the Penguin in the Arkham series, and this just feels like a goth kid's rehash in high school English class.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Dec 17, 2018 23:21:16 GMT
As I see it, Batman is supposed to be more nightmarish than realistic. There are references to H. P. Lovecraft ( Arkham), the villains are all psychos (hence an Asylum being such a prominent place in the series), the Joker is inspired by a horror character in a expressionist film and Batman himself preys on the fear of his enemies, using the darkness in his favor. It was supposed to be an inversion of the bright and optmistic Superman, and that's why I think the nightmare atmosphere that Burton was going for fits the character so well. Taking the expressionist art style as an inspiration was just genious, as it was already referenced in the series since the creation of the Joker (and Burton referenced it again with another character, Max Shreck). Of course, it all depends on what one expects from a film adaptation. Some people prefer adaptations that make the source material look realistic (so the Nolan movies would be much better in that regard), others think the adaptation must be almost equal to the original (which is a problem, since Batman had various different representations in comics and tv until then); I do prefer highly stylized adaptations that take some liberty while keeping the original spirit - Burton changed the characters and their origin stories, but I do think he got the atmosphere of what Batman's world is supposed to be. That said, The Dark Knight is such a good movie that even if it's not really my favourite depiction of Batman as far as atmosphere/art style goes, it's still my favourite Batman movie. Batman is always one bad day away from becoming the Punisher.
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Dec 22, 2018 21:03:06 GMT
And yet... The story and writing in general are really sub par. The same can be said of the 1989 film. I feel the same way. Although it isn't as bad with the first one. I think the dialogue in the first is actually worse...
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