Balder
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Post by Balder on Aug 6, 2019 11:14:59 GMT
This week: Sonic Adventure Year: 1998 Developer: Sonic Team, Now Productions Publisher: Sega Platforms: Dreamcast, GameCube, Xbox 360, PS3 Chosen by: MeleeMaestro
Next: MeleeMaestro
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Aug 6, 2019 11:20:51 GMT
Added and stickied.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Aug 6, 2019 13:42:56 GMT
These were very transforming times in gaming. Some of the gems we have nowadays like Super Mario Odyssey still show signs of the changes games like Sonic Adventure brought to the field.
These changes took us by surprise, but to be honest even though it was the beginning of a new era, it was also the end of another, you could say these times were the pick, and everything after that was about starting from scratch an already redefined industry.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Aug 6, 2019 15:49:05 GMT
At the beginning, it's very fun and exciting, and the graphics were mind-blowing at the time, a full generational jump. The first level at the beach does its best to leave a mark and that's how the game is usually remembered (most videos that show Sonic Adventure usually use footage from that level). The controls look very good at first and the gameplay seems like an adequate transition to 3d, on par with what Nintendo was doing to their properties.
But then, later on, the game shows its flaws: there are a lot of bugs/glitches, the other characters aren't very fun to play, the presentation is terrible (badly directed cutscenes, bad voice acting, cringe-inducing dialogue), Sonic's controls aren't adapted for the exploration sections at the city, none of the other levels are really on par with how promising Emerald Coast was.
The impression is that it was a promising, but also a very rushed game. That level of polish that you would get from a 3D Mario or Zelda release is just not there, which turned out to be Sega's main problem with most Sonic installments later on: they are too comfortable to release unfinished games in their most important franchise, which always looked strange to me.
That said, I would give it a 4/5: an impressive game (especially at the time) that could have been polished to be a true classic.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Aug 6, 2019 22:20:25 GMT
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Aug 7, 2019 0:48:40 GMT
For me this is the most disappointing Sonic game. I played Sonic Adventure 2 before the first one, which I noticed had better review scores from critics, some of the best for any Sonic game in fact. It was routinely featured on top 10 Dreamcast titles lists and had this legendary reputation as being the "single best 3D Sonic game ever" (so said many a game journalists).
On top of that, the trailer for the then-upcomming re-release of the game (Sonic Adventure DX) that was included on Sonic Mega Collection for Gamecube was mind blowing, and in fact when I first saw it as a kid the trailer looked so good that I thought it was a totally new sequel to Sonic Adventure 2:
(the version of this trailer included on Sonic Mega Collection was trimmed down a bit, but still wowed my childhood socks off)
I soon learned that the trailer was actually for a remaster of the original Sonic Adventure and would be released for Gamecube; when it came out I begged my parents to buy me a copy, and once I finally played it I was shocked by what a mediocre, depressing experience it was.
As someone who played the sequel beforehand, I don't think the original Sonic Adventure did anything better. I remember absolutely hating certain aspects of the first game like the overworld/HUB/city/whatever you want to call it (why was it necessary?), and the chao garden felt like a half-baked gimmick in comparison to the sequel's. The voice acting was terrible (even worse than Sonic Adventure 2's), the character models & cutscenes often looked ugly, the abundance of human characters in the hub+other parts felt unfitting for a Sonic game, and the music was generally a bizarre mix of amateur junk, or "college rock" as some refer to it. Weird. I've also heard numerous complaints about the camera, which has been described as one of the worst ever in a 3D platformer, but my memory on this particular issue is very scarce.
Overall it was a completely underwhelming experience, even worse than Sonic Heroes (the last 3D Sonic game I bothered playing), and I was pleasantly surprised to learn later on that it was a game that was retrospectively viewed as highly overrated by the gaming community. When I learned that, I no longer felt insane.
Based on my memory, I would give it a 2/5 "bad" score, but since it has been well over a decade since I played it AND the fact that I sold my only copy years ago, I'm not sure I feel comfortable giving it a rating.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Aug 7, 2019 2:08:09 GMT
Spirit Bomb - Yeah, viewed in comparison to its sequel (which was already a flawed gem), SA1 looks even worse. Now, if you want a really great 3d Sonic game, look for Sonic Generations - it's not just the best 3d entry in the franchise, but also my favourite 3d platformer of the 360/PS3 generation (among my favorites in general). It's really good. But trust me, in 1999, Sonic Adventure being dropped against the N64 and PS1 made it look years ahead. To me, it was almost as shocking as seeing the jump from Super Mario World to Mario 64. Sonic running absurdly fast through the beach, in very detailed 3d graphics (I remember I was impressed even by him leaving footprints behind!), then that massive whale destroying the entire scenery... Its presentation sure looked like the future of video games. It was only once you kept playing that the obvious shortcomings started popping up, and there were many. It doesn't hold up nowadays, but I'll always cut it some slack because it was very far ahead in quite a few areas and I can still remember how advanced it looked in comparison to other games at its release. Hence my 4/5.
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Aug 7, 2019 2:54:27 GMT
Spirit Bomb - Yeah, viewed in comparison to its sequel (which was already a flawed gem), SA1 looks even worse. Now, if you want a really great 3d Sonic game, look for Sonic Generations - it's not just the best 3d entry in the franchise, but also my favourite 3d platformer of the 360/PS3 generation (among my favorites in general). It's really good. But trust me, in 1999, Sonic Adventure being dropped against the N64 and PS1 made it look years ahead. To me, it was almost as shocking as seeing the jump from Super Mario World to Mario 64. Sonic running absurdly fast through the beach, in very detailed 3d graphics (I remember I was impressed even by him leaving footprints behind!), then that massive whale destroying the entire scenery... Its presentation sure looked like the future of video games. It was only once you kept playing that the obvious shortcomings started popping up, and there were many. It doesn't hold up nowadays, but I'll always cut it some slack because it was very far ahead in quite a few areas and I can still remember how advanced it looked in comparison to other games at its release. Hence my 4/5. I admit, it was a very pretty game for 1999, especially the beach level which you mentioned, so it probably sounded like I wasn't giving the visuals enough credit. My real issues with the game lie with the other aspects of it. I haven't played Sonic Generations. I remember it came out at a time when consoles were becoming oversaturated with shitty Sonic games, like Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity (all on the Wii, coincidentally), so I didn't pay much attention to it.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Aug 7, 2019 2:56:28 GMT
Actually Sonic Colors may be better than Generations, but Generations is great as well. In that era the best platformers were both Super Mario Galaxy games, and my guess is they raised the bar so high that even Sonic felt the pressure to rise along, specially after having many underperforming releases.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Aug 8, 2019 0:31:15 GMT
stratogustav - I haven't played Colors, but everyone praises it. I should check it out someday, it would be an incentive if Sega ported it to PC... Back to Sonic Adventure: do you guys like to play with any of the other characters? I might me misremembering it, but the Amy levels were surprisingly competent as they were more traditional platform levels.
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Aug 11, 2019 1:33:38 GMT
stratogustav - I haven't played Colors, but everyone praises it. I should check it out someday, it would be an incentive if Sega ported it to PC... Back to Sonic Adventure: do you guys like to play with any of the other characters? I might me misremembering it, but the Amy levels were surprisingly competent as they were more traditional platform levels. It's been far too long since I've played the game to remember the character-specific stuff, sorry. I only remember the Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Big the Cat segments, which were all uninteresting to play.
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Post by winnersdontusedrugs on Aug 13, 2019 0:27:35 GMT
I think Melee's experience brings up an interesting point. Releasing this after SA2 on the Gamecube definitely didn't do SA1 any favors, especially since the GC version was a bit more prone to annoying glitches and didn't add anything worthwile coming from the DC version. I think a lot of the reason SA1 in particular gets shit is from people who played it on the GC after playing SA2B. Not to say that there isn't a cornucopia of flaws to pick from for those who just don't like the game, but plenty of games from around 1998 suffer from similar or more jank and seem to get away with it in the eyes of the gaming community. Cervantes Knuckles is my boy, but it's a shame he only has a handful of stages. Amy's story was fun, with some stages like Twinkle Park and Hot Shelter having a surprising amount of work and creativity put into it. I swear, some of the parts where you're getting chased by Zero are more cinematic than the cutscenes themselves.
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