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Post by spidershinobi on Feb 9, 2016 19:26:27 GMT
Have you ever imagined a world in which SEGA remained a nice and active company even years after their last console had been discontinued? Maybe you did, but in Japan no one would need to imagine that.
See, we knew SEGA but we strayed from its path; they weren't terribly sure what to do themselves but they still tried - releasing games regularly, working with Marvel, hiring western studios to develop their games, repurposing series, investing in the Alien license - and what the west answered didn't sound very good to their ears, so SEGA focused in Japan.
In the end we were big losers here. It's not just about losing visibility from a consumer perspective, but also losing the chance to see more of what we used to enjoy during those times in which things had been going fine.
No company remains the same every 10 years, but maybe SEGA had the most changes. The most notable aspect of change is that the only classic series (or character) to remain in its classical form is Sonic the Hedgehog, but even he could suffer in some way if he continues to lose popularity.
In simple terms, those are all parts of our loss:
- SEGA always thinking twice about western releases, or just sandbagging the West in general;
- most series from our childhoods have either been put inside the fridge or repurposed (Shenmue + Streets of Rage = Yakuza, for example);
- there's also the general problem/weirdness that no company has been very consistent lately...
But of course there's some ambivalence to be seen...
Repurposing series might not have been the best thing in the world; the trailer you see immediately above this sentence is for Shining Resonance. Despite its looks there have been some reports that this Tales clone isn't very good (though this goes along with every reporting regarding every actual Tales game).
Other things that can be a bit troubling regarding SEGA's performance is when it comes to their amazing success in the mobile market compared to their overall mediocre sales in the console market. Is it even fair to demand more console games from them if they won't see benefit?
What do you think? Do you still have hope? Or is all lost for us?
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Post by winnersdontusedrugs on Feb 9, 2016 20:18:45 GMT
If all SEGA has up their sleeve is anime shit then they will never make it. Despite that, I have a feeling they will release some more impressive stuff as time goes on.
I think SEGA would benefit by making more simple, arcadey games since they have a much lower cost of development then Japanese Anime Simulator 2016 over here. SEGA has always had a lot of success in the arcades so I think they would be able to bring some of that success over to the mobile market and the xbla/psn. It's a good way to try and build their consumer base outside of Japan since like SpiderShinobi said, its not in very good condition.
Even if they don't strike gold, I feel like this would be a nice way to build up some capital until an actual good idea for a AAA game hits them.
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Post by Mister Xiado on Feb 10, 2016 1:12:03 GMT
The real problem is the people who lived and breathed programming and fun have either died, or have otherwise left the industry. STEM fields are flooded with crap and outsourcing, so it's VERY difficult to make a living programming for a small studio, and most jobs available are soul-crushing hellholes that sap motivation like nothing else. Not sure what daily life is like for someone interested in making doujin games and such in Japan (in a city or in a town), but in the US... ugh.
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
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Post by Balder on Feb 10, 2016 16:31:29 GMT
I don't understand why it's so fucking hard for Sega to release a Sonic game in 2D again. Look at the Rayman series; completely re-done in classic 2D fashion like it used to be.
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Post by manicottimafia on Feb 10, 2016 18:55:18 GMT
I don't understand why it's so fucking hard for Sega to release a Sonic game in 2D again. Look at the Rayman series; completely re-done in classic 2D fashion like it used to be. Sonic the Hedgehog 4. They simply can't make a sonic game anymore. Period. |
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Feb 11, 2016 0:09:02 GMT
The most notable aspect of change is that the only classic series (or character) to remain in its classical form is Sonic the Hedgehog, but even he could suffer in some way if he continues to lose popularity. But they did try hard to repurpose it with Sonic Boom, didn't they? All the comments about it being "just an spin-off" are, I think, just a result of the games being received terribly. I'm still a fan of Sega (not just a fan of "classic Sega", but also of the modern one), and I agree with most of what you said. Hell, some of the best games I played in the last few years were developed either by them or by their second-parties (Sonic Generations and Racing Transformed, Alien Isolation, the pc version of Valkyria Chronicles, Typing of the Dead Overkill etc.), so it really sucks that they have lost visibility in the West. About this lost visibility, I think there are two factors that stand more than others: - Their marketing department is, apparently, balls. Most games aren't even announced before they are released (Typing of the Dead and Valkyria PC suffered from that) and only sell by word-of-mouth. Their localizations can take years to be done and then be released with no fanfarre - this was probably why Platinum Games isn't working with them anymore, after everything wrong they did to Anarchy Reigns. - Unlike Nintendo, Sega never relied on their proven franchises, even in the 90s. I mean: Alex Kidd, Golvellius and Zillion were basically forgotten after the Mega Drive was released; then Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Monster World, Phantasy Star and even the classic Sonic were forgotten after the Saturn; Panzer Dragoon, Nights, Shining Force, Dragon Force were all forgotten after the Dreamcast... Even when they came back to a series, they completely redesigned it (Sonic - Sonic Adventure, Phantasy Star - PS Online). This constant reinvention shows a lot of creativity amongst their artists, but it's just very, very risky for a company as big as them: when they drop one franchise, they're also dropping its fanbase. Sega itself has a lot of fans, but their franchises don't: every single franchise of theirs is considered niche nowadays (except for Sonic), which is contradictory considering how many fans Sega has. I'm not against their tendency to invent new series/reinvent older ones, but their marketing team has to do a much better job to make people see Sega as a creative company willingly to take risks - most people just see it as a company that forgets about its most important series. Also, some of their decisions are just strange: Valkyiria Chronicles was very, very well received in the West by PC players. So what they do? Well, they release a new game exclusive for the PS4, with no localization in sight and in a completely different genre. |
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Post by spidershinobi on Feb 11, 2016 20:37:22 GMT
The most notable aspect of change is that the only classic series (or character) to remain in its classical form is Sonic the Hedgehog, but even he could suffer in some way if he continues to lose popularity. But they did try hard to repurpose it with Sonic Boom, didn't they? All the comments about it being "just an spin-off" are, I think, just a result of the games being received terribly. Not really. When I was a kid I used to enjoy Sonic on every media possible, and the continuity of cartoon, comics and videogames never met. As for Sonic Boom, the cartoon is ok. Nothing ground-breaking, but the main product of this sub-franchise was acceptable. Still on Sonic, Sonic 4 was released in parts, but overall it's a much better game than the first Genesis Sonic at least, but not many people like it. So... It's that kind of situation... It doesn't matter what they do with Sonic, someone will complain it wasn't enough. As for Platinum Games, their fans really paint an image of them! The studio was formed after Clover Studios was mercilessly banished from Capcom, wasn't it? Well, they got fired because their games didn't sell well, and during their time with SEGA they had a contract which they fullfilled and were released due to how only 1 of the games developed was a hit. Contrary to what Platinum fans think, Anarchy Reigns was delayed because developers hadn't made enough characters to SEGA's eyes, and the big doubt regarding whether the product should be released was that it probably wouldn't sell: the game didn't sell even in Japan, where it was released under the scheduled date. I like that game, but from a business point of view releasing it was pretty dumb, not to mention the developers probably wanted to get paid extras for fixing all those balance issues they always knew about. In the end I feel the only winner there is Capcom, they got the least amount of flak for it. And about Azure Revolution, I'm sure fans of the Valkyria Chronicles seris overreacted really hard when they assumed the series was dead. The expanded release of the first game was probably a move to promote Azure Revolution to begin with. winnersdontusedrugs Those are nice points! But at this rate I think SEGA has already had those ideas. Their game of highest revenue was published by Gumi in the West, and they failed hard with it and have shut it down (so SEGA probably won't try their safest bet around here now). As for the arcade games, didn't you just dismiss one? Mister Xiado They're still making good games, we just aren't seeing most of them. This isn't an easy discussion. This is a troublesome matter that may or may not be a point of reunions among SEGA CEOs. Well, at least they know we are OK with their Yakuza brothers. |
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Feb 12, 2016 0:43:49 GMT
spidershinobi - About Sonic, while the continuity was always different, his design was very similar in each instance, until they fully redesigned him for Sonic Adventure and then again for Boom (and Boom certainly has the most radical changes in design). I really liked Sonic Colors, Generations and Sonic 4 Ep. 2 (Ep. 1 is just awful), and I heard Sonic Lost World is, at the very least, an ok game - it's actually on my wishlist on Steam, so I'll probably buy it soon. If it wasn't for Boom, I think it could be said that Sega was on the right track with the series, as those ones were all received positively. The Racing series also contributed in part to give Sega more positive exposure. Seriously, the series was getting to a very good state until Boom, which was doomed from the very beggining. So I don't think it's just a matter of the fans being impossible to please, it's just a matter of they not keepping a consistent quality with the series. Sonic Boom seemed something very like Aliens: Colonial Marines, games that Sega outsourced, lost a lot of money on them, and then preferred to release them in their broken state and recover some costs than outright cancel them. The problem is the bad public image that comes with releasing a broken game, and that damage can certainly affect future sales of other games in the series. About Platinum, seeing how nowadays both Nintendo, Microsoft and Activision (and, in the past, a still-active Konami) are actively working with them, I think it's clear that their games bring some interest to major publishers and must be seeling well nowadays (at least in relation to how much it costs to produce one of their games, which are certainly cheaper than a major AAA western release). I think having the studio as an almost second-party was a good move for Sega in the long run, but that's just conjecture, of course. Maybe even with a good market push they would still be niche games, I don't know. But I was mentioning Anarchy Reigns just as an example of their problematic release/marketing strategy. Going back to Valkyria, see, even if the pc port was just to gauge interest in Azure Revolution, it still showed that, surprise surprise, strategy games can be really good sellers on pc! I mean, just look at the success of the XCOM series. To give you an idea, Valkyria was the top game sold on steam during the month of its release; it outsold the newest (at the time) CoD and Assassin's Creed games. A six years old game outsold two new entries in major western franchises, and I remind you that the game had almost no advertising (I remember it being announced like 2 weeks before release on their blog). It's just insane that Sega didn't grab that oportunity to make HD ports and localizations of the sequels, as the public is certainly there. So, my point is: I do love Sega and still think their current games are among the best, but their release and marketing strategy do a lot of harm to them. I do agree that not every game will be a success if localized and we lose a lot because of it, but some games would be successful if they tried. At least they already got back on track with the Alien series, Isolation was seriously one of the best games I played last year.
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Post by manicottimafia on Feb 12, 2016 2:27:48 GMT
spidershinobiPeople give the original sonic some slack because it was the first and it was made in 1991. Sonic 4 was made in 2010. By then they had already made sonic 2, 3, and a sizable library of good handheld games so 4's flaws are far less forgivable. The fact that Sonic Boom had a cartoon and a toy line behind it further proves that they were probably going to repurpose sonic. If Boom had sold well, don't you think that it would have been the future of Sonic? If not, then why would Sega put out all this new media for it? Why would they push classic Sonic at that point?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 19:56:45 GMT
I look at games like Valkyria Chronicles or Vanquish, notice how my friends have never heard of them and realize: as consumers many of us are far too influenced by marketing and attached to brand recognition instead of quality (*cough* Apple *cough*). Everyone's willing to repeatedly pay full retail price for a COD upon release and excuse the lack of innovation, but is less willing to try something like (another many my friends never heard of) Journey. It's not just their loss at not ever experiencing something new; it also affects the health of the hobby because companies in the industry like Sega are less and less willing to take risks on developing titles that are not part of the current Holy Trinity (shooters/sequels/HD remakes).
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