scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
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Post by scipioafricanus on Dec 12, 2019 20:24:26 GMT
The mechanics look horrid in it.
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Bogard
Night Raider
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Post by Bogard on Dec 12, 2019 22:22:39 GMT
My favourite Zelda game of all time and it's in my top 5 favourite games of all time. This was a great response from Nintendo to all the great RPG's that the Ps1 was pouring out.
Love the world and atmosphere in this game. Clock town and all its streets and crevasses are very iconic to me. love just getting lost and walking around in it for ages.
I love the stories of the individuals and how each of their missions turn out. The whole mask thing is great with Fierce deity at the end was great.
The only Zelda game where i really like the vast majority of the characters. Absolutely one of my favourite games of all time.
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 13, 2019 6:02:48 GMT
scipioafricanus - I was just going to post the AVGN video! AVGN isn't supposed to be a serious review (as it's a comedy show), but his review is almost spot on in comparison to what I think about the game. It's pretty much what I said in my post: wonderful world, art, atmosphere, music and the idea itself, among the best Zelda games in those areas as Bogard just said, but a gameplay that had a lot of room for improvement with too many annoyances. I remember it being one of the few Zelda games that I didn't try to go for 100% because that would mean doing some dungeons multiple times and I couldn't stomach that. Mind you, I still love the game for all its creativity and rank it among the most memorable Zeldas. By the way, I STILL haven't played my 3DS copy to see what was changed - sadly, last month one of the buttons on my 3DS stopped working and I still hadn't time to fix it (it's probably a simple fix, just replacing the rubber underneath), so I can't play it right now.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 14, 2019 19:37:14 GMT
Convenient that the Majora's Mask discussion thread was revived, since I was planning on resurrecting it myself. One thing that always personally divided me about the game was its art direction. I remember Cervantes saying years ago that he thought Majora's Mask was the closest we'll ever get to a survival-horror LOZ game from Nintendo. I personally think that, despite having the darkest themes and storyline of a Zelda game, the visual style of Majora's Mask is far too expressionistic to be scary to me. While the environmental designs were always great, several of the new NPCs look like they'd fit right in with Wind Waker's: As for the new enemies/creatures/monsters/sub-bosses, some of their models are so flat and cartoony that they literally look like they're made out of paper mache. One example I remember off the top of my head is the King of Ikana: Then there are a number of WTF characters/creatures who don't even look like they belong in a Zelda game, like the beavers: I mean, WTF?!? For these reasons I still consider Ocarina of Time scarier than Majora's Mask, since it ultimately had much more consistently realistic character models. I do admire the creator-driven feel of Majora's Mask's art direction, but it comes at the expense of the game's scare factor, which felt less intense than OoT's, despite MM's higher difficulty level and darker themes. (OoT also used blood in some of its environments and cutscenes, whereas MM never featured any blood whatsoever) Cervantes Does this make sense?
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
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Post by stratogustav on Dec 18, 2019 22:12:38 GMT
I agree with Cervantes, I definitely feel the many elements of horror in Majora's Mask, but I do like the art direction too, specially for the N64 textures.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 22, 2019 22:40:31 GMT
I agree with Cervantes , I definitely feel the many elements of horror in Majora's Mask, but I do like the art direction too, specially for the N64 textures. So you find the many cartoony creature models in MM scary? I would say you're easily spooked then.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
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Post by stratogustav on Dec 22, 2019 22:45:31 GMT
So you find the many cartoony creature models in MM scary? I would say you're easily spooked then. It is not necessarily scary, but the color palette, and the environment in general, do give you that horror vibe for sure, like hellish, spooky situation, that is eerie at least on a very subtle level, like a low key nightmare you could say.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 22, 2019 23:13:52 GMT
So you find the many cartoony creature models in MM scary? I would say you're easily spooked then. It is not necessarily scary, but the color palette, and the environment in general, do give you that horror vibe for sure, like hellish, spooky situation, that is eerie at least on a very subtle level, like a low key nightmare you could say. Well I'm just talking about the new character models. The environments in MM were absolutely outstanding and indeed darker in a figurative sense, especially ikana canyon. Some of the environments that exclusively feature OoT models like the well in ikana canyon really did feel genuinely scary. But too often the game looked more along the lines of expressionistic animation like Nightmare Before Christmas, and those kind of visuals only scared me as a child.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
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Post by stratogustav on Dec 23, 2019 2:00:37 GMT
Well I'm just talking about the new character models. The environments in MM were absolutely outstanding and indeed darker in a figurative sense, especially ikana canyon. Some of the environments that exclusively feature OoT models like the well in ikana canyon really did feel genuinely scary. But too often the game looked more along the lines of expressionistic animation like Nightmare Before Christmas, and those kind of visuals only scared me as a child. Personally, as an adult, if I find myself in an environment with those characters, it would freak me out. I can already imagine how the real life version of those characters would definitely scare the shit out of anyone, but in the game they just match perfectly the already spooky environment. I agree they aren't scary, but they don't look pleasant either. They serve to the feeling of uneasiness the game already provides. Nightmare Before Christmas is a good example, because just because it is horror it doesn't mean it will necessarily scare you. You could say Castlevania is a horror franchise, but there is nothing scary about it, it is mostly beautiful music, with artistic environments, but it still belongs to the genre because of the nature of the enemies, and the premise of the plot.
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 23, 2019 3:22:15 GMT
As stratogustav said, it definitely has that uncanny vibe that comes with stop motion animation - things like Nightmare Before Christmas. It's not horror in the sense of being outright scary, but horror by an atmosphere of uneasiness (also look at David Lynch's movies in general). It's the impression that there's something very wrong with that place, with a very melancholic feel and darker themes than what one would expect from a game from that era: the entire section with the zombified father, or the implication that the masks come from dead people and that Link goes through great suffering while using them are some examples. The Mask Salesman, with his erratic movements and forced smile, is also strange enough to give the idea that he might not even be a person (maybe he is using a mask himself?). It's what we would generally call surrealistic horror: horror centered on the strangeness of a place and its characters. It doesn't mean that the game doesn't have lighter moments and even funny ones - it's just that, at least in comparison to other Zelda games, this one veers too close to being more about the horror than the high fantasy side of the series. Link's Awakening had already showed that the series could deal with more serious, philosophical and darker themes, but I do think Majora's Mask realized more of those possibilities while dealing with the horrific side of the series (even though Link's Awakening is, to me, the better game). Of course, horror is a very subjective thing, so I get that Ocarina, for Spirit Bomb, with its more outright scary moments (bottom of the well says hi), might be seen closer to straight up horror.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
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Post by stratogustav on Dec 23, 2019 5:15:50 GMT
I recently got the Link's Awakening Remake for the Switch, and the game has definitely grown on me. It used to be my least favorite good Zelda game, but now I'm really liking it. Props to Nintendo to bringing this back into our attention.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 29, 2019 2:25:34 GMT
Before I reply to the above comments from my fellow pub mates, there's another important (personal) point I want to make about MM before I forget:
I think one of the reasons I seldom feel the urge to go back and do more playthroughs of MM nowadays is because, unlike my other favorite LoZ titles OoT and Zelda II on NES, the dungeon designs in MM are quite convoluted and also very few. Two good examples are The Great Bay Temple and Ikana Temple (the final one), which are both complex, difficult to navigate, AND have to be completed within the time limit. The first two N64 Zelda games are well known for having the most challenging and obscure puzzles of any 3D Zelda (Wind Waker's puzzles were non-existent by comparison because they were so much easier to figure out), so trying to do playthroughs of MM's temples by memory AND all within the time limit could be very stressful.
The thing I like about Zelda II's difficulty is that it came from the combat itself, with there being very few puzzles to solve. That's something I really dig, because I've never been very fond of puzzle solving in games, so despite MM having more difficult enemies than OoT, I still find OoT funner to play because playing MM feels like homework by comparison.
Despite all my complaints about MM, I still love both OoT and MM equally. They were two of the darkest and the two most visually powerful Zelda games ever, and by now I'm convinced that Nintendo will never make another dark-fantasy Zelda game like these two ever again, which is a real shame.
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