Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,821
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Post by Cervantes on Feb 23, 2016 14:10:06 GMT
About patches: I think the problem isn't having them, but how some developers are relying on them more than they should. Having Day 1 patches as a common thing is really strange, especially when some of these patches are almost as big as the games themselves. It means that developers/publishers aren't investing in quality control as they should - they know that the game is broken and release it anyway, thrusting that the problems can be fixed after release through patches, when sometimes this isn't even possible (just look at Arkham Knight's pc port situation). This also brings us not only to the release of broken games, but also of incomplete games that are supposed to be completed through future patches (Street Fighter V). This is a bummer. Outside that, I agree with spidershinobi - having the option to patch a game is actually a good thing.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Feb 23, 2016 21:56:40 GMT
The ps4 had one year gap of exclusives, the really good exclusive cameout in 2014, Driveclub, but it had loads of issues, but it didn't hinder my enjoyment of the game. And Knack counts as a good game too
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lukefonfabre388
Sonic Wing
Move like a shadow, sting like a nuke.
Posts: 469
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Post by lukefonfabre388 on Feb 23, 2016 22:04:41 GMT
I think installing games is bullshit because you cant just pop it in and play it like you used to do. Also patches shouldn't be necessary because the game should work right when you get it no need to download a patch to fix a broken game.
I think consoles have really gone downhill in terms of quality. Seems me and maestro here are the only ones who understand this. I was hoping 8th gen would fix some of these issues I had with the 7th but no it just continued it. But at least 7th gen had some redeeming features to it. It's definitely not the worst console gen ever. Its the 8th gen I cant stand but at least hope it gets better. I'm tired of all these dumb ports and hd remasters of games already in hd.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Feb 23, 2016 22:39:19 GMT
Meh, you guys have it easy. My connection is usually around 300-700kbps and sometimes a patch downloading within a day is a luxury. Driveclub's 11gb patch took me 4 days to download, imagine going through that. But i'm not complaining, Driveclub actually added content instead of fixing stuff, recently they've added a hardcore driving mode, which makes the game 10 times harder. But in other cases, a game like BF4, i was excited to play, but when i heard the numerous issues with it i decided to skip it, same with SFV, which is a recent example. Hell i was going to buy a new arcade stick for SFV but thankfully i knew all about the issues it has. So it really comes down to how much you know about a game before buying it.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Feb 24, 2016 2:04:12 GMT
It is funny with Street Fighter V because I just want to play it. I didn't pre-ordered it, but when I ordered my PS4 a couple of days ago, I ordered the Collector's edition because I want that Ryu action figure and I don't have any other game for it. So even though I knew all about how ridiculous it is that it shipped without an arcade mode, which is unacceptable. I still bought it. But that's just because I know Street Fighter history and it has always been like that. We got Street Fighter 2 in 1991 but we didn't play the full version until 1994. The same goes for Street Fighter IV, we got it in 2009, but the full version was not out until 2014. It is what it is and I just learned to accepted it. By the way fsfsxii 4 days for a patch is bushit dude, that's insanity man.
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cobretti
Vanguard Ranger
Strong Arm Of The Law
Posts: 1,738
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Post by cobretti on Feb 24, 2016 2:07:17 GMT
Yeah I ordered a PS4 since my brother took his with him. I felt bad as soon as I did it, but it is the only way for me to play Street Fighter V and Mortal Kombat XL, that I also ordered, then I'll get Tekken 7, The King Of Fighters XIV, Gran Turismo Sport, and Ace Combat 7 when they come out. I'm not going to spend $1,500 in a monstrous looking gaming PC. If they were small then I would had skip the PS4 altogether, but I can't stand the size gaming PCs have nowadays. They make me feel like I live in 1998. It is ridiculous. Get a Steam Machine if size is an issue. Plus you get that funky looking controller.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Feb 24, 2016 2:12:27 GMT
Yeah I ordered a PS4 since my brother took his with him. I felt bad as soon as I did it, but it is the only way for me to play Street Fighter V and Mortal Kombat XL, that I also ordered, then I'll get Tekken 7, The King Of Fighters XIV, Gran Turismo Sport, and Ace Combat 7 when they come out. I'm not going to spend $1,500 in a monstrous looking gaming PC. If they were small then I would had skip the PS4 altogether, but I can't stand the size gaming PCs have nowadays. They make me feel like I live in 1998. It is ridiculous. Get a Steam Machine if size is an issue. Plus you get that funky looking controller. I've seen Steam machines for $700 that only have 8GB of RAM which means they can't even run Quantum Break which specs said will require at least 16GB of RAM, It is just not worth it. Plus I like my Windows 10.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Feb 24, 2016 2:20:36 GMT
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lukefonfabre388
Sonic Wing
Move like a shadow, sting like a nuke.
Posts: 469
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Post by lukefonfabre388 on Feb 24, 2016 2:30:10 GMT
Get a Steam Machine if size is an issue. Plus you get that funky looking controller. I've seen Steam machines for $700 that only have 8GB of RAM which means they can't even run Quantum Break which specs said will require at least 16GB of RAM, It is just not worth it. Plus I like my Windows 10. I'm still using windows 7. I'm not sure how much longer its got left in its lifespan but I like it. I'm eventually going to have to upgrade to 10 unless they come out with something else. I'll still keep 7 around just for offline stuff and use 10 for online stuff.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Feb 24, 2016 2:56:07 GMT
Those are good news. Yeah I remember trying to play Dead Or Alive 5 Last Round against you. The lag made playing impossible. lukefonfabre388I liked Windows 7 too, it was definitely better than 8 and 8.1.
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Feb 24, 2016 9:19:24 GMT
I agree with Cervantes. Patches have turned into a form of developer laziness and it sickens me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 13:18:50 GMT
I think most complaints expressed here are unfounded. On the Ps side quality has been improving in general. Ps1 was that "don't touch or it will break" deal, I've never seen a console last over 3 years, and the game library made N64 and Saturn look better; it was just a delicate box that like the Saturn was meant to be played by japanese kids, not western ones. Ps2 was even more delicate (there's video footage of Xbox and GC beating it hard in terms of built quality), with loading times and performance related to third-party products being abysmal; luckly the library didn't suck. Ps3, released in 2006 got its first good game in 2007, so only one year gap there, fsfsxii; I don't know about built quality but since the controllers are horrible I assume it shouldn't be high, but performance is way better, often times hindered only because developers preferred to develop under the more familiar Xbox/PC structure, not because the system itself wasn't capable. I think the first good big game released for Ps4 was in 2015 (exclusing Ps3 and Vita games here for reasonability), so a 2 year gap, not that bad; I don't know about its built quality or how things will go from here, but it should be better than Ps3 in terms of general quality. As for some bullet points: - Installing games is great because during the Ps2 era loading times were crazy and games didn't even look good to begin with; native Ps3 games both look better and load faster than Ps2 ones in general; - Patches are good because games can realistically improve; it's easy to forget but there were games plagued by design mistakes that were never fixed, and patching could and has changed that a little, save for cases in which the publisher decided to not fix a game. - The lack of exclusive games on consoles is somewhat of an illusion, they're there, I'm sorry, it's more about not wanting to look at them than anything else. spidershinobi: what are you doing with your consoles exactly? Throwing them off cliffs? Many of you have already seen the consoles I currently own in the other thread (over half of those listed are disc-based) and *I haven't had a single one break down on me* (my original 'fat' PS2 had laser issues that I easily fixed, and that was after countless hours of gameplay and DVD watching). Unless you're 5 years old, spoiled and take out frustrations on inanimate objects, most systems and games-- including the disc-based ones-- that don't say '360' on them will last much longer than the average (non-collector's) interest will. What PS2 games are you speaking of with long load times? I own over 100 titles and not one of them have what I consider excessive loading screens (although, to be fair, I remember the days of old PC/CD rom games, so my perspective is skewed). Some PS1, Saturn and Neo Geo CD games, for sure. PS2, no. What I do know is that installing, updating and patching these modern games takes what seems like forever and is pissing me off. Patches are often a bandaid for lazy and/or rushed development. When I get tired of waiting, sometimes I just pop in a cartridge on the good 'ol SNES or Genesis to pass the time and actually have, y'know, fun. And I'm still waiting for a current gen great, unique exclusive that isn't a sequel or remake...
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Post by Imperial Khador on Feb 24, 2016 14:07:42 GMT
I think there are pros and cons to patches. As games grow larger and more complex, QA becomes understandably more difficult, and patches are an important tool in order to correct errors after the fact. On the other hand, it is fair to say that some developers have become overly reliant on this ability, and some games feel like if you're an early adopter, you're really a beta of the game.
Granted, this is strictly anecdotal, and I'm not in the industry, but I don't think I've ever heard a positive story about modern video game QA. To listen to tales, North American developers at least seem to rely on young, minimum wage employees who want to break into the industry and have an attrition rate high enough that very few people in those departments will stay around long enough to become experienced.
Regarding digital/installed games, I think there is probably more positive here than negative. I'd rather have to install a game from the disc than put up with long loading times.
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Post by spidershinobi on Feb 24, 2016 19:06:41 GMT
Gotta say, this is the biggest "I forgot how things used to be" topic around here.
Chances are you aren't playing Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 then, because Chameleon will try to show up quite often in the genesis edition, but of course the game will eventually crash because he wasn't finished for that game. You wouldn't want to be a powerleveler in Phantasy Star IV either, that could break the game. But for those 2 are the bugs I know about for that era. What I do know is that several other games have had glitches ranging from unimportant to game breaking, and they would never be fixed because patching wasn't a thing for consoles/arcades. The first edition of Super Mario Sunshine is uncompletable. Metroid Prime 2 has a gamebreaking bug, and unlike UMK3 it takes more than just a few fights to get back where you were when that bug may take place. Paper Mario (N64) crashes rarely. Prince of Persia Two Thrones (GC) crashes hard if you make a time paradox. A few mainline Pokémon games on GBA have a time limit glitch. Some games also performed worse than developers and publisher intended, "forcing" both publishers and consumers to spend more money to "fix" those problems, as what happened to games such as Metal Slug 2, Virtua Fighter 2 and Castlevania 64; those 3 at least could be fixed if patching was a thing for the platforms they were in. And then there are situations in which one edition of the game is simply inferior to the other, such as what happens among regional versions of Luigi's Mansion (GC).
So, just imagine the situation: you buy a GameCube at launch date and get yourself Super Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion. Your chances of having gotten both a faulty copy of Sunshine and the inferior edition of Luigi's Mansion are high, and no patch would have helped that because the technology wasn't there yet.
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,574
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Post by scipioafricanus on Feb 25, 2016 0:30:18 GMT
Look patches are now a necessary evil. Would I prefer that games be "complete?" OF COURSE! But games are a lot more complicated now. What is inexcusable is a game that the publisher does not fix and just abandons without patching it.
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