Balder
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Post by Balder on Jul 27, 2019 20:54:08 GMT
Deckard being debatable depends on which version of the movie you're watching. If it was one of the theatrical ones then he's 100% human. This movie ends with Deckard and Rachel flying away together over a landscape with Deckard narrating. The Final Cut and Director's Cut allude in varying degrees to whether or not Deckard is human. Deckard has dreams here about a unicorn and the film ends with the elevator scene and they have no narration at all in the film. I saw the Director's Cut, not the Final Cut, and I saw the unicorn scene, and I still thought he was human. The reason why is because even though those unicorn dreams are implanted in replicants, he was consciously day-dreaming about it, exploring his own nature after starting to realize his feelings for Rachel. I imagine that dream was common knowledge about the replicants, specially for someone in his profession. This is why when he saw the origami at the end of the movie he shook his head, because it reminded him he was doing the right thing by leaving with Rachel despite everything he has done to please the world so far, which is a decision Roy made him realize was important to take. I feel the only tricky part here is probably Gaff who was constantly asserting the development of Deckard's relationship with Rachel, as if he knew the purpose of that relationship is to procreate replicants, and Deckard was somehow the chosen one for that purpose. However even if that was the case, there is nothing contradicting the possibility that whatever offspring comes from that relationship, it is the fruit of both natures, which is something Gaff wanted or at least expected, which is an expectation that made him proud of his own assumptions, and observations. To me that was the case simply because it makes that relationship more significant, and the offspring as well, particularly if it represents a new leap for human evolution. Ah I must've misrembered that the unicorn scene wasn't in the Director's Cut. The Gaff scenes are the most important ones that gives clues as to whether or not Deckard's a replicant. At the end he tells him that he's done a man's job. Other clues are that we never get to see Deckard's eyes in the light (particularly shady in Rachel's VK test) and that he never answers Rachel's question as to whether or not he has taken the VK test himself.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jul 27, 2019 21:12:19 GMT
Ah I must've misrembered that the unicorn scene wasn't in the Director's Cut. The Gaff scenes are the most important ones that gives clues as to whether or not Deckard's a replicant. At the end he tells him that he's done a man's job. Other clues are that we never get to see Deckard's eyes in the light (particularly shady in Rachel's VK test) and that he never answers Rachel's question as to whether or not he has taken the VK test himself. Yeah, like I said in my previous comments, Gaff is the only tricky part because of his origamis, but like I said there, they still do not represent Deckard is a replicant, instead they talk about his purpose to reproduce with one. To take that big leap for humans that will bring a new chapter in human evolution. The tricky part is that Gaff somehow envisioned Deckard for that job before Deckard was even sure of it himself, and that could easily be taken as if he was designed for that purpose, but there is nothing disproving that Gaff was instinctively predicting that to happen, and he was happy to give Deckard that reassurance with his origamis. On top of that, the simple idea of mixing both natures is more powerful than just making replicants go wild, and this is why it is the most likely scenario, in which case Deckard is the human of that mixing, considering we already know Rachel is a replicant. The other clues of denying the test, and hiding the eyes, simply gave away the idea that Deckard perceived very early on that there was no difference between him, and the replicants (despite him being a human), and that his whole struggle during the movie was to be at peace with that notion. Ultimately it was the sum of all his experiences with replicants, and Roy, what made him be at peace with that notion, and gave him the permission to do what he wanted, and what he wanted is to be with Rachel. |
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
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Post by scipioafricanus on Nov 16, 2019 0:22:33 GMT
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dschult3
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
The true heir to the Monado.
Posts: 2,887
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Post by dschult3 on Nov 17, 2019 18:18:25 GMT
I liked their discussion, but I feel like they don't like this movie NEARLY as much as we do here in the pub. |
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,838
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Post by Balder on Nov 17, 2019 20:24:34 GMT
I really need to rewatch this movie this November, but time has fucked me over so many times this month. I won't watch it on a whim, it needs to be planned. Every time I have tried to watch it, I have been interrupted. My last chance is on Nov. 30th.
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
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Post by scipioafricanus on Nov 17, 2019 21:39:28 GMT
I really need to rewatch this movie this November, but time has fucked me over so many times this month. I won't watch it on a whim, it needs to be planned. Every time I have tried to watch it, I have been interrupted. My last chance is on Nov. 30th. Don't forget Tombstone... |
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,838
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Post by Balder on Nov 17, 2019 21:50:44 GMT
I really need to rewatch this movie this November, but time has fucked me over so many times this month. I won't watch it on a whim, it needs to be planned. Every time I have tried to watch it, I have been interrupted. My last chance is on Nov. 30th. Don't forget Tombstone... It was so close to being watched now the other day. My roommate and I have watched pretty much everything we wanted to watch together except for Tombstone, but now exams and Christmas is right around the corner, and those are going to slow us down. We'll get to it eventually though. |
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Nov 19, 2019 18:48:44 GMT
Everytime I think about what is my favorite movie of all time, I'll pause between Blade Runner and Alien. I can watch these movies dozens of times and still discover something new about them. One thing that I absolutely love about Blade Runner is that you can pause the movie at any time and it will always be a visually impressive painting. Seriously, every frame was well thought out, I've never seen anything like it before - the closest is a movie called The Fall (2006), which is also up there among my favorite ones. Blade Runner is just beautiful to see, besides, as you guys are pointing, being a deep story about the nature of humanity. I do agree with stratogustav that Rachel saving Deckard shows she can feel love, and that it doesn't really matter if Deckard is a replicant or not, the ambiguity itself is the point. Rutger Hauer's monologue is truly one of the most beautiful speeches ever given in a film, perfect lines and delivery. For comparison, I've just watched the live action adaptation of Ghost in the Shell, and man, talk about an empty story, there's no feeling of humanity in there at all. It shows that a cyberpunk story and visuals don't automatically make a movie intelligent or deep. (By the way, I'm referring only to the live action movie: the anime movies and series are awesome and good spiritual successors to Blade Runner; hell, the second anime movie, GitS: Innocence, feels like a great Blade Runner sequel/spin-off.) The two first Ghost in the Shell movies are so damn good! We should discuss them sometime. The second one is like a Neo-Noir movie with a Blade Runner universe attached. I wish they made more movies in that first run of Ghost in the Shell. So you apparently love lots of different anime but I vividly remember you disagreed with film critic Manohla Dargis' summery of the film Paprika in the trailer discussion thread, which read: "Evidence that japanese animators are reaching for the moon, while most of their american counterparts remain stuck in the kiddie sandbox"
-Manohla Dargis Nice job contradicting yourself, Balder. |
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
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Post by Balder on Nov 19, 2019 19:01:43 GMT
The two first Ghost in the Shell movies are so damn good! We should discuss them sometime. The second one is like a Neo-Noir movie with a Blade Runner universe attached. I wish they made more movies in that first run of Ghost in the Shell. So you apparently love lots of different anime but I vividly remember you disagreed with film critic Manohla Dargis' summery of the film Paprika in the trailer discussion thread, which read: "Evidence that japanese animators are reaching for the moon, while most of their american counterparts remain stuck in the kiddie sandbox"
-Manohla Dargis Nice job contradicting yourself, Balder. Thank you Maestro for showing everyone just how deep that asshole of yours is for reaching in there to pull this bullshit out. I fucking knew you were reaching because I don't remember ever bashing Paprika, so I went back to that thread, and guess what, I had two posts in that thread, and the only thing it said was that I thought it was retarded to discuss a trailer instead of the movie and that I loved EveryFrameAPainting, that's it. And you know what? I do disagree with this elitist quote you have dug up here. If you look beyond the shitty Disney and Pixar movies they grind out every year, you'll come to find out that they do make great American animated movies today. Just look at Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, that shit was dope. And when in the fuck did I ever say that I didn't like anime? Like honestly when the fuck? At this point I only think you're trying to piss me off with these retarded accusations. Why do I always have to come down here and discredit you? "Nice job contradicting yourself, Balder" Get that shit out of here. Ghost in the Shell, Mobile Suit Gundam and Studio Ghibli movies are way better and more worthy of discussing than any of the obscure mediocrity movies you ever wanted to discuss like Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within and Ringing Bell. Try to do some research next time before you "vividly remember" me doing or saying something again. |
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Nov 19, 2019 19:25:10 GMT
So you apparently love lots of different anime but I vividly remember you disagreed with film critic Manohla Dargis' summery of the film Paprika in the trailer discussion thread, which read: "Evidence that japanese animators are reaching for the moon, while most of their american counterparts remain stuck in the kiddie sandbox"
-Manohla Dargis Nice job contradicting yourself, Balder. Thank you Maestro for showing everyone just how deep that asshole of yours is for reaching in there to pull this bullshit out. I fucking knew you were reaching because I don't remember ever bashing Paprika, so I went back to that thread, and guess what, I had two posts in that thread, and the only thing it said was that I thought it was retarded to discuss a trailer instead of the movie and that I loved EveryFrameAPainting, that's it. And you know what? I do disagree with this elitist quote you have dug up here. If you look beyond the shitty Disney and Pixar movies they grind out every year, you'll come to find out that they do make great American animated movies today. Just look at Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, that shit was dope. And when in the fuck did I ever say that I didn't like anime? Like honestly when the fuck? At this point I only think you're trying to piss me off with these retarded accusations. Why do I always have to come down here and discredit you? "Nice job contradicting yourself, Balder" Get that shit out of here. Ghost in the Shell, Mobile Suit Gundam and Studio Ghibli movies are way better and more worthy of discussing than any of the obscure mediocrity movies you ever wanted to discuss like Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within and Ringing Bell. Try to do some research next time before you "vividly remember" me doing or saying something again. Look at the poll, idiot. The only person who voted in agreement with Mr. Dargis' summery of the film was me, and I'm 100% willing to bet you voted against his opinion. You have a track record for fapping off to shitty western animation like The Incredibles and Genndy Tartokavsky's Clone Wars garbage. Just saying. I mean, if you like these films, that's totally ok by me. I won't attack you personally for that (I never personally attacked Dan E Kool for loving John K's animation & Seth McFarlane's stuff so much when he was still around). But when you flip shit over rants other people make about these animators like a sugared-up 10 year old, then I DO have a problem with it. And "you're trying to piss me off with these retarded accusations?"? Like how you always threaten to shut down my threads for invalid reasons and how you used to spam me with your shitty alt account? You're one to talk. |
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Nov 19, 2019 20:09:52 GMT
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,838
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Post by Balder on Nov 19, 2019 21:10:26 GMT
Thank you Maestro for showing everyone just how deep that asshole of yours is for reaching in there to pull this bullshit out. I fucking knew you were reaching because I don't remember ever bashing Paprika, so I went back to that thread, and guess what, I had two posts in that thread, and the only thing it said was that I thought it was retarded to discuss a trailer instead of the movie and that I loved EveryFrameAPainting, that's it. And you know what? I do disagree with this elitist quote you have dug up here. If you look beyond the shitty Disney and Pixar movies they grind out every year, you'll come to find out that they do make great American animated movies today. Just look at Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, that shit was dope. And when in the fuck did I ever say that I didn't like anime? Like honestly when the fuck? At this point I only think you're trying to piss me off with these retarded accusations. Why do I always have to come down here and discredit you? "Nice job contradicting yourself, Balder" Get that shit out of here. Ghost in the Shell, Mobile Suit Gundam and Studio Ghibli movies are way better and more worthy of discussing than any of the obscure mediocrity movies you ever wanted to discuss like Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within and Ringing Bell. Try to do some research next time before you "vividly remember" me doing or saying something again. Look at the poll, idiot. The only person who voted in agreement with Mr. Dargis' summery of the film was me, and I'm 100% willing to bet you voted against his opinion. You have a track record for fapping off to shitty western animation like The Incredibles and Genndy Tartokavsky's Clone Wars garbage. Just saying. I mean, if you like these films, that's totally ok by me. I won't attack you personally for that (I never personally attacked Dan E Kool for loving John K's animation & Seth McFarlane's stuff so much when he was still around). But when you flip shit over rants other people make about these animators like a sugared-up 10 year old, then I DO have a problem with it. And "you're trying to piss me off with these retarded accusations?"? Like how you always threaten to shut down my threads for invalid reasons and how you used to spam me with your shitty alt account? You're one to talk. First off, I honestly don't know what to tell you dude, but I haven't actually voted on the Paprika trailer poll. I haven't seen Paprika (yet), and therefore I won't vote on a poll regarding it. Somebody else has voted on it. I wish I could access and see who voted on it, but for some reason that only works with a moderator account if I made the thread. I can even screenshot that I haven't voted on it if it's that important to you.
Secondly, The Incredibles and Genndy's Clone Wars are both awesome. Take a look at what the general public and the critics think about them. You're in the minority here. It's definitely not true that this means they are perfect just because both the public and the critics like them, but it should give you a clue that they might be genuinely better than what you think. And thirdly, you have to be more specific what you mean by me flipping my shit over rants by animators, because I'm honestly clueless about what you're referring to.
Finally, I don't "always" threatened to shut down your threads. That was once, you know god damn well why I threatened to do that. This is first and foremost a forum to discuss games, however, discussing anything else is also highly welcome when it's within the limits of what's appropriate. You had a celebration of someone's death, hoping for their eternal torturing and suffering. That's some fucked up sadism shit right there if you ask me.
And penultimately, just because you don't get along with anyone and some of them get along with me doesn't mean that they are my alt. Dlotn is actually a real dude, and even though I know him personally, doesn't mean we share the same opinions (because we don't). You sometimes have valid points and criticisms, but most of the time you waste your valid points by bringing up all of these false accusations (just like you did here, why bring up "my alt. account" when you know it isn't me).
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,614
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Post by scipioafricanus on Nov 19, 2019 23:25:13 GMT
Thank you Maestro for showing everyone just how deep that asshole of yours is for reaching in there to pull this bullshit out. I fucking knew you were reaching because I don't remember ever bashing Paprika, so I went back to that thread, and guess what, I had two posts in that thread, and the only thing it said was that I thought it was retarded to discuss a trailer instead of the movie and that I loved EveryFrameAPainting, that's it. And you know what? I do disagree with this elitist quote you have dug up here. If you look beyond the shitty Disney and Pixar movies they grind out every year, you'll come to find out that they do make great American animated movies today. Just look at Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, that shit was dope. And when in the fuck did I ever say that I didn't like anime? Like honestly when the fuck? At this point I only think you're trying to piss me off with these retarded accusations. Why do I always have to come down here and discredit you? "Nice job contradicting yourself, Balder" Get that shit out of here. Ghost in the Shell, Mobile Suit Gundam and Studio Ghibli movies are way better and more worthy of discussing than any of the obscure mediocrity movies you ever wanted to discuss like Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within and Ringing Bell. Try to do some research next time before you "vividly remember" me doing or saying something again. Look at the poll, idiot. The only person who voted in agreement with Mr. Dargis' summery of the film was me, and I'm 100% willing to bet you voted against his opinion. You have a track record for fapping off to shitty western animation like The Incredibles and Genndy Tartokavsky's Clone Wars garbage. Just saying. I mean, if you like these films, that's totally ok by me. I won't attack you personally for that (I never personally attacked Dan E Kool for loving John K's animation & Seth McFarlane's stuff so much when he was still around). But when you flip shit over rants other people make about these animators like a sugared-up 10 year old, then I DO have a problem with it. And "you're trying to piss me off with these retarded accusations?"? Like how you always threaten to shut down my threads for invalid reasons and how you used to spam me with your shitty alt account? You're one to talk. Balder has taste in fapping... Just saying
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Nov 24, 2019 2:44:23 GMT
Look at the poll, idiot. The only person who voted in agreement with Mr. Dargis' summery of the film was me, and I'm 100% willing to bet you voted against his opinion. You have a track record for fapping off to shitty western animation like The Incredibles and Genndy Tartokavsky's Clone Wars garbage. Just saying. I mean, if you like these films, that's totally ok by me. I won't attack you personally for that (I never personally attacked Dan E Kool for loving John K's animation & Seth McFarlane's stuff so much when he was still around). But when you flip shit over rants other people make about these animators like a sugared-up 10 year old, then I DO have a problem with it. And "you're trying to piss me off with these retarded accusations?"? Like how you always threaten to shut down my threads for invalid reasons and how you used to spam me with your shitty alt account? You're one to talk.
And thirdly, you have to be more specific what you mean by me flipping my shit over rants by animators, because I'm honestly clueless about what you're referring to.
Rants ABOUT animators. MY rants about animators. Remember when I made a thread comparing Final Fantasy The Spirits Within to The Incredibles and you nearly had a psychological meltdown over it? That's one example. |
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,838
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Post by Balder on Nov 24, 2019 9:17:37 GMT
And thirdly, you have to be more specific what you mean by me flipping my shit over rants by animators, because I'm honestly clueless about what you're referring to.
Rants ABOUT animators. MY rants about animators. Remember when I made a thread comparing Final Fantasy The Spirits Within to The Incredibles and you nearly had a psychological meltdown over it? That's one example. It's funny how bad your memory is Maestro, because every time you say I have a meltdown or that I was angry about something, I go back to check if that was actually the case, but every time I go back, I see you are full bullshit because I did not have a meltdown. You might have me confused with Dlotn, because I can see how his posts come off as angry, but none of my posts have that angry tone. Go back and see for yourself. If anyone had a meltdown in that thread, it must have been you. And I wouldn't blame you too much. After all nobody agreed with you and you got fucked by three of us. Just like today, funny how history repeats huh? Nobody agrees with you now either. You know how the old saying goes: If it smells like shit everywhere you go, maybe you should check your own pants instead of blaming everyone else. If nobody ever agrees with you dude, maybe you're not always right. |
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