ModdedCentipede
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Post by ModdedCentipede on Jul 27, 2019 9:24:28 GMT
In respect to Rutger Hauer who passed away this week, we take a look at one his signature movies.  Chosen by: scipioafricanusYear: 1982 Starring: Harrison Ford, Rutger Hauer, Sean Young Directed by: Ridley Scott Written by: Hampton Fancher, David Webb Peoples Produced by: Michael Deeley, Charles de Lauzirika |
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Jul 27, 2019 10:21:32 GMT
My favorite movie of all time. What's weird about Blade Runner is that I never really liked it the first time I saw it. I thought it was kind of boring, and I the final confrontation between Deckard and Roy was anti-climactic. After a year or so I started reading about people calling this the best sci-fi movie of all time. I thought: "Really? Blade Runner is supposed to be the best sci-fi movie of all time. Pft". Some time went by and I wanted to rewatch it again, and this time I'd try to analyze it and see if it really was good, and damn, it became my favorite movie of all time. Visually, I never think anything has overcome it in terms of style. It's the perfect sci-fi neo-noir, just incredible. The world-building is insane. It actually feels like a possible dystopian future. Even though time itself has rendered Blade Runner outdated in some of its predictions, new movies still builds off this dystopian society Blade Runner built like the fog, the weird combination of languages, dead companies appearing on huge TV billboards, every day items and resources becoming super expensive like animals and wood. Blade Runner built it all. Rutger Hauer gives one of the most memorable monologues of all time along with one of my favorite performances in movies. It always gives me the chills. I can watch this whenever, however, I'll refrain myself from watching it so that I can watch it in November since the movie takes time in November 2019. That'll be a real cool thing to do, and everyone should watch it then.
Here's the latest review I made on the film from January 26th 2018:
"Blade Runner is my favorite film of all time, there is no doubt. I could go on indefinitely explaining every single thing that makes this the perfect movie, but since Blade Runner is that type of movie where I notice new things every time, I will focus on those. The world building in Blade Runner is fantastic, ever noticed Deckard has two different shirts? They both look awesome. The doves come from the last room Deckard is in before he climbs to the roof. The replicants drink the same whiskey as Deckard, which is Johnny Walker by the way. This movie is so amazingly rich with details and I love every second of it. This was also the first time I watched it in 4K with HDR, and it was like watching new colors I have never seen before. The neon lights look mesmerizing and the city landscape looks so damn sharp. I can never go back to standard 1080p ever again. I have seen things you people wouldn't believe..." 5/5 The best movie of all time.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jul 27, 2019 12:00:18 GMT
Rachel is so damn hot. I go to bars just to find a duplicate, and so far nothing compares, some close, some different, just not her.
There is so much that can be taken from this movie, and it is always fun to talk about those things. It is great when a movie can provoke conversation, and Blade Runner always does that.
Some of my observations are different than what others believe. For example many think that when Harrison was aggressive with Rachel he was trying to test her ability to be human, but in my opinion he was no longer testing her, because with what he felt for her, it just didn't matter, for him she was as real as it gets.
He was having a real human experience with her, and that's why the sexual "aggressiveness" simply demonstrates that he is treating her like a real women he desires, and she understands that from his actions, and that's why she agrees to submit to him.
At that point they are both having one of those kind of special moments Roy is talking about at the end of the movie.
The other thing I disagree with people is that they say that when Rachel saves Harrison, she is asserting she wants to be seen as an individual, or that she is rejecting her nature by killing one of her kind, for me it is far simpler than that, she is choosing to save Ford because she has empathy for him as a human being, in other words she is experiencing love, and that is even more powerful because that's something unexpected from someone of her nature.
The whole point of the movie is that humans and replicants are equal, which means that it doesn't matter if Harrison is a replicant or not, what matters is that after all, humans are also some kind of replicants too, just from a higher creator.
The problem with AI is that it could easily become so extremely complex that it can fool anyone into believing it is alive, and that's why many could easily get tricked into assuming AI has that chance in the future.
Even here ^^^ they needed a real bacteria to be home of their designed data. So they were only able to reprogram the cell, but they weren't able to give it the life they were seeking to create.
I kid you not, AI right now is laughable, you can still see it working as a search bar, but there will be a time when it will be indistinguible from something original, specially after human characteristics are programed into it, but just because something looks, and feels like something, it doesn't mean it is.
In the movie however both replicants and humans were equally alive. Decker is a human, but it doesn't matter if he is a replica, it doesn't matter if he can get hypnotized into day-dreaming unicorns just like the replicants, in that world, they are both the same.
The biggest give away of a life form is its ability to reproduce, in practice, machines can make other machines, we can consider that reproduction because it literally is, and the sequel does a great job in pointing out that importance of that notion.
Someday we may be able to create synthetic cells that can reproduce without using something alive at the beginning, an organism, so self sufficient that it can live from sunlight, perhaps something that can evolve, or at least adapt.
Then over time, that "creation" may develop consciousness, similar to ours, and the ability to exercise free will, to make mistakes, to elaborate an emotional composition, and to dream fantasy of its own making.
Sure, I find it hard to believe, but if we can imagine it, it means we can do it, and that alone gives authenticity to the whole premise of the movie.
For extra props I do need to add that this movie is how I see Shakespeare plays unfold, with the exact same performance, and with the exact same self awareness.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 27, 2019 12:04:22 GMT
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 27, 2019 12:10:07 GMT
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 27, 2019 12:16:42 GMT
Balder is right. I watched this for the first time when I was rather young and didn't like it. It was no where near the likes of Star Wars for action and adventure. Only with age did I grow to appreciate it. It is in the same vein as Star Trek, rather than Star Wars. Star Wars being science fantasy, while Trek is science fiction. Both Blade Runner and Star Trek worlds "could" happen. Watching the Blu-Ray of it shows the special effects still hold up; the world is gorgeous and lush. Movies being made now wish they looked this good, even without a reliance on CG.
Perfect science fiction.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Jul 27, 2019 12:57:34 GMT
Everytime I think about what is my favorite movie of all time, I'll pause between Blade Runner and Alien. I can watch these movies dozens of times and still discover something new about them. One thing that I absolutely love about Blade Runner is that you can pause the movie at any time and it will always be a visually impressive painting. Seriously, every frame was well thought out, I've never seen anything like it before - the closest is a movie called The Fall (2006), which is also up there among my favorite ones. Blade Runner is just beautiful to see, besides, as you guys are pointing, being a deep story about the nature of humanity. I do agree with stratogustav that Rachel saving Deckard shows she can feel love, and that it doesn't really matter if Deckard is a replicant or not, the ambiguity itself is the point. Rutger Hauer's monologue is truly one of the most beautiful speeches ever given in a film, perfect lines and delivery. For comparison, I've just watched the live action adaptation of Ghost in the Shell, and man, talk about an empty story, there's no feeling of humanity in there at all. It shows that a cyberpunk story and visuals don't automatically make a movie intelligent or deep. (By the way, I'm referring only to the live action movie: the anime movies and series are awesome and good spiritual successors to Blade Runner; hell, the second anime movie, GitS: Innocence, feels like a great Blade Runner sequel/spin-off.) |
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Jul 27, 2019 12:57:35 GMT
As for the Deckard being human or not, I've always felt it would've detracted from the story of Roy had Deckard been a replicant. Deckard's realization that replicants and humans are equal is only powerful if Deckard is human. Despite that, I love how Riddley Scott toys with the idea of Deckard being a replicant and having it be open to interpretation. I'm a strong believer in that he's human and that it's important for him to be so. The older versions of the movie doesn't have this plot and the endings on those suffer heavily from that fairy tale happy ending. The Final Cut is really the best way to watch this. It's the way Scott wanted it to be after all. Not even the Director's Cut was his cut. The only thing I would've liked to be included is the old version of the scene where Roy meets Tyrell and says "I want more life fucker" instead of saying father.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Jul 27, 2019 13:00:28 GMT
Everytime I think about what is my favorite movie of all time, I'll pause between Blade Runner and Alien. I can watch these movies dozens of times and still discover something new about them. One thing that I absolutely love about Blade Runner is that you can pause the movie at any time and it will always be a visually impressive painting. Seriously, every frame was well thought out, I've never seen anything like it before - the closest is a movie called The Fall (2006), which is also up there among my favorite ones. Blade Runner is just beautiful to see, besides, as you guys are pointing, being a deep story about the nature of humanity. I do agree with stratogustav that Rachel saving Deckard shows she can feel love, and that it doesn't really matter if Deckard is a replicant or not, the ambiguity itself is the point. Rutger Hauer's monologue is truly one of the most beautiful speeches ever given in a film, perfect lines and delivery. For comparison, I've just watched the live action adaptation of Ghost in the Shell, and man, talk about an empty story, there's no feeling of humanity in there at all. It shows that a cyberpunk story and visuals don't automatically make a movie intelligent or deep. (By the way, I'm referring only to the live action movie: the anime movies and series are awesome and good spiritual successors to Blade Runner; hell, the second anime movie, GitS: Innocence, feels like a great Blade Runner sequel/spin-off.) The two first Ghost in the Shell movies are so damn good! We should discuss them sometime. The second one is like a Neo-Noir movie with a Blade Runner universe attached. I wish they made more movies in that first run of Ghost in the Shell. |
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jul 27, 2019 13:38:25 GMT
Yeah, like I said earlier, Decker is a human, I don't think that's even debatable, however it is important to realize he knew the whole time that his humanity didn't make him different, it just gave him privilege. If anything, Roy gave him with his actions the permission he was seeking to make a life with Rachel.
He always knew it was the right thing, but doubted because of what the world could say, but after knowing with certainty that all that he knew, and felt, mattered more than the world, he went, and did it, not because Roy showed him replicants are humans, he knew that already.
What Roy made him realize is that there is an end, that the end is equal in significance for all, that there is no time to waste in the insignificant, and that following his heart is more important because this is his life, and his life has a value only he can claim, seeing the paper Unicorn reminded him of that, because that's what needed to be done.
This is why Roy left in joy, because he lived, those tears were of gratitude, and he was not afraid, he was just moved for having the opportunity to be, sure he would have loved to extend it, but inside all that it mattered for him is that he was, and to be was his greatest achievement.
I have only seen the movie once, this year for the only time actually, but it was impactful enough for me to have an opinion about it, I have no idea how I missed it before, but I'm glad I saw it at a time I can appreciate it.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Jul 27, 2019 14:19:32 GMT
Yeah, Roy spends the movie fighting to extend his life, but at the end it seems he understands that what he already lived was far more important - and by keeping Deckard alive, he is passing down some of his memories. Quite a beautiful story.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Jul 27, 2019 14:36:03 GMT
Yeah, like I said earlier, Decker is a human, I don't think that's even debatable, however it is important to realize he knew the whole time that his humanity didn't make him different, it just gave him privilege. If anything, Roy gave him with his actions the permission he was seeking to make a life with Rachel. He always knew it was the right thing, but doubted because of what the world could say, but after knowing with certainty that all that he knew, and felt, mattered more than the world, he went, and did it, not because Roy showed him replicants are humans, he knew that already. What Roy made him realize is that there is an end, that the end is equal in significance for all, that there is no time to waste in the insignificant, and that following his heart is more important because this is his life, and his life has a value only he can claim, seeing the paper Unicorn reminded him of that, because that's what needed to be done. This is why Roy left in joy, because he lived, those tears were of gratitude, and he was not afraid, he was just moved for having the opportunity to be, sure he would have loved to extend it, but inside all that it mattered for him is that he was, and to be was his greatest achievement. I have only seen the movie once, this year for the only time actually, but it was impactful enough for me to have an opinion about it, I have no idea how I missed it before, but I'm glad I saw it at a time I can appreciate it. Deckard being debatable depends on which version of the movie you're watching. If it was one of the theatrical ones then he's 100% human. This movie ends with Deckard and Rachel flying away together over a landscape with Deckard narrating. The Final Cut and Director's Cut allude in varying degrees to whether or not Deckard is human. Deckard has dreams here about a unicorn and the film ends with the elevator scene and they have no narration at all in the film. |
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Jul 27, 2019 15:03:56 GMT
I love this movie. As most of you have said earlier, this movie isn't about the "whiz bang." As a kid, I didn't think that highly of it. Now I consider it to be one of the best SciFi movies ever made. I wish there weren't three versions though. To me, the talk about him possibly not being human wrecks the story for me. It shows the evolution of humans through the acceptance of life outside of their own. To make him a non human takes away from the longevity of the film and sticks it in the category of every other "surprise, the main character wasn't what you thought s/he was" movies. Bleh... Anyways, I think Balder was the one who got me interested in the movie again. Thanks man! |
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Jul 27, 2019 16:47:35 GMT
I love this movie. As most of you have said earlier, this movie isn't about the "whiz bang." As a kid, I didn't think that highly of it. Now I consider it to be one of the best SciFi movies ever made. I wish there weren't three versions though. To me, the talk about him possibly not being human wrecks the story for me. It shows the evolution of humans through the acceptance of life outside of their own. To make him a non human takes away from the longevity of the film and sticks it in the category of every other "surprise, the main character wasn't what you thought s/he was" movies. Bleh... Anyways, I think Balder was the one who got me interested in the movie again. Thanks man! Haha thanks, that's awesome dude. It's so cool most of the guys in here regard the film so highly. I used to talk about the film all the time, but most people I showed it top found it extremely boring. So nowadays I'm always careful when recommending it. There aren't just three versions though, there are four believe or not. They are: The US theatrical version, the international theatrical version, the Director's Cut and then the Final Cut. For me the Final Cut is the absolute best version with the Director's Cut close behind, and then the US and international cuts are both kind of underwhelming in comparison (one of them are less violent, can't remember which). |
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jul 27, 2019 20:33:37 GMT
Deckard being debatable depends on which version of the movie you're watching. If it was one of the theatrical ones then he's 100% human. This movie ends with Deckard and Rachel flying away together over a landscape with Deckard narrating. The Final Cut and Director's Cut allude in varying degrees to whether or not Deckard is human. Deckard has dreams here about a unicorn and the film ends with the elevator scene and they have no narration at all in the film. I saw the Director's Cut, not the Final Cut, and I saw the unicorn scene, and I still thought he was human. The reason why is because even though those unicorn dreams are implanted in replicants, he was consciously day-dreaming about it, exploring his own nature after starting to realize his feelings for Rachel. I imagine that dream was common knowledge about the replicants, specially for someone in his profession. This is why when he saw the origami at the end of the movie he shook his head, because it reminded him he was doing the right thing by leaving with Rachel despite everything he has done to please the world so far, which is a decision Roy made him realize was important to take. I feel the only tricky part here is probably Gaff who was constantly asserting the development of Deckard's relationship with Rachel, as if he knew the purpose of that relationship is to procreate replicants, and Deckard was somehow the chosen one for that purpose. However even if that was the case, there is nothing contradicting the possibility that whatever offspring comes from that relationship, it is the fruit of both natures, which is something Gaff wanted or at least expected, which is an expectation that made him proud of his own assumptions, and observations. To me that was the case simply because it makes that relationship more significant, and the offspring as well, particularly if it represents a new leap for human evolution. |
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