scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 30, 2019 23:35:51 GMT
You use the word "socialist" like it's a bad thing. Well, it is a bad thing when it relates to SJWs, outside of that it is just one more point of view. Well the National Socialist Workers Party and Union of Soviet Socialist Republics killed a lot of people.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 30, 2019 23:42:31 GMT
Socialism doesn't have anything to do with SJWs though, but I'll take your compliment, thanks. I heard you guys had Antifa in the 90's, but managed to kick their arses before they became a plague.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 30, 2019 23:45:34 GMT
I heard you guys had Antifa in the 90's, but managed to kick their arses before they became a plague. Hadn't heard about this phenomenon until now. Good thing they aren't a thing anymore on any meaningful scale. It's ironic how they use fascist methods to fight fascism. Anyone who uses violence like this to support their views or fight other views are misguided and should not be supported. Not really ironic. They are the fascist they "fear" so much. They are just too dense to look in a mirror.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jul 31, 2019 0:04:31 GMT
Well the National Socialist Workers Party and Union of Soviet Socialist Republics killed a lot of people. I agree, but the new socialists like to distant themselves from their origins.
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centipede
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Post by centipede on Jul 31, 2019 0:27:20 GMT
I heard you guys had Antifa in the 90's, but managed to kick their arses before they became a plague. This is where I learned about it. The problem is that the Antifa punks think they're on the right side of history. Like feminists, they think they can do no wrong. Plus, they never really knew right from wrong, which is what you get when everything is relative. With what I heard about American tertiary education, do you think those old hippy professors are trying to bring about the revolution they were trying to bring about in the 60's?
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 31, 2019 0:36:22 GMT
This is where I learned about it. The problem is that the Antifa punks think they're on the right side of history. Like feminists, they think they can do no wrong. Plus, they never really knew right from wrong, which is what you get when everything is relative. With what I heard about American tertiary education, do you think those old hippy professors are trying to bring about the revolution they were trying to bring about in the 60's? Sort of, but it is is very ironic that they want to overthrow "the system" while on a government pension, like unrepentant terrorist/professor Bill Ayers. You can get into the Frankfurt School process, which has some merit. But look at it this way. They had no marketable skills, they aren't engineers, they can't build anything, etc. They wanted to overthrow the patriarchy, matriarchy, etc and failed at the time. But they thought they were heroes fighting a war for...something. So they got "jobs" paid by the government they "hate" to glorify themselves to youth and make themselves relevant. Nice cushy gig if you can get it.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 31, 2019 0:37:44 GMT
Well the National Socialist Workers Party and Union of Soviet Socialist Republics killed a lot of people. I agree, but the new socialists like to distant themselves from their origins. Very true, but if you push them on issues far enough, they revert to it.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jul 31, 2019 3:56:32 GMT
Very true, but if you push them on issues far enough, they revert to it. Well that's because here in America SJWs are usually related to socialists. SJWs is a big problem in America. They hate free speech, and use political correctness as a tool to censor the opposition. They hate whites, they hate males, and they hate the rich. They are a hate group, and are terrorizing people into feeling like they are victims when they are not. They claim that women and blacks don't have the same opportunities when this is a lie. They also want to punish the rich for being successful. All these things are creating division, and making it harder to have a peaceful environment for children to grow.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Jul 31, 2019 7:21:30 GMT
This is where I learned about it. The problem is that the Antifa punks think they're on the right side of history. Like feminists, they think they can do no wrong. Plus, they never really knew right from wrong, which is what you get when everything is relative. With what I heard about American tertiary education, do you think those old hippy professors are trying to bring about the revolution they were trying to bring about in the 60's? I've never heard about this channel before and this video has over 600K views, but apparently this is his only video with that many views. Why did so many people watch this one video about Antifa?
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centipede
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Post by centipede on Jul 31, 2019 10:26:22 GMT
This is where I learned about it. The problem is that the Antifa punks think they're on the right side of history. Like feminists, they think they can do no wrong. Plus, they never really knew right from wrong, which is what you get when everything is relative. With what I heard about American tertiary education, do you think those old hippy professors are trying to bring about the revolution they were trying to bring about in the 60's? I've never heard about this channel before and this video has over 600K views, but apparently this is his only video with that many views. Why did so many people watch this one video about Antifa? Youtube's algorithm, that's why.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Jul 31, 2019 10:51:57 GMT
Man, talk about an already strange conversation taking a turn to the surreal and bizarre. As someone who is living right now in a country whose president is openly fascist and promoting violence against the left/progressives and against our most vulnerable people (including, yes, natives, blacks, gays and women, who, at least over here, stratogustav, are really at a disadvantage), it's really strange to see some of you guys unironically adhering to similar far-right rethorics that brought my country to its current situation - over here, feminist/gay rights/black movements and the left have never been more necessary and, at the same time, more obviously persecuted by the state and its militias. Maybe you must have lived in a country that had an actual dictatorship to get how dangerous this far-right rethoric can get, I don't know. Seriously, don't naively adhere to this rethoric that unironically talks about how the world is filled with dangerous LJWs or feminists or something - this discourse is just creating strawmen for people to be paranoid and angry about. I can tell you that the alternative is much, much worse. That said, MeleeMonk, this is still a very unfortunate thread, man. I know this discussion is not new ( cobretti reminded us how Chasing Amy already parodied it), but it always sounded like reaching.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jul 31, 2019 12:13:18 GMT
Cervantes most governments are corrupt, some more than others, but the problem with identity politics is not what side of the spectrum promotes them, the problem is that they get promoted at all. When political parties start to divide the population into groups, chaos is inevitable, it doesn't matter what groups they support. Telling people you are gays, you are blacks, you are women, etc.. is giving them a group identity, they are not addressing their rights as individuals. Which means people in these groups won't feel part of the whole, they won't feel Brazilian, they will feel Brazilian gay, Brazilian women, Brazilian black, etc., and that can only cause conflict because the narrative is literally putting groups separate from each other. You could call it "tribalism", and what happens when people think they belong to a tribe historically? They go to war. Maybe in their own way, but a war nevertheless, and that is a real problem if you want to sustain a society. The problem here is not so much that the government favors one group over the other, the problem is that those groups already exist because they were defined for political purposes, and as a consequence the government now has the option to favor one over the other through legislation. As opposed of seeing everyone as individuals, and fighting for their rights as individuals, because they are all part of the same nation, and their partisan tendencies do not relate to a specific group because everyone can decide for themselves, which is a complete different scenario regardless of who is in power. This is what makes first world countries successful, this kind of union, something that doesn't exist in third world countries divided by politically defined classes. So what happens when you bring those separations to first world countries? The same thing that happens in underdeveloped countries, you get underdevelopment, you get conflict, and we know that's not a good scenario.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 31, 2019 22:55:10 GMT
Cervantes most governments are corrupt, some more than others, but the problem with identity politics is not what side of the spectrum promotes them, the problem is that they get promoted at all. When political parties start to divide the population into groups, chaos is inevitable, it doesn't matter what groups they support. Telling people you are gays, you are blacks, you are women, etc.. is giving them a group identity, they are not addressing their rights as individuals. Which means people in these groups won't feel part of the whole, they won't feel Brazilian, they will feel Brazilian gay, Brazilian women, Brazilian black, etc., and that can only cause conflict because the narrative is literally putting groups separate from each other. You could call it "tribalism", and what happens when people think they belong to a tribe historically? They go to war. Maybe in their own way, but a war nevertheless, and that is a real problem if you want to sustain a society. The problem here is not so much that the government favors one group over the other, the problem is that those groups already exist because they were defined for political purposes, and as a consequence the government now has the option to favor one over the other through legislation. As opposed of seeing everyone as individuals, and fighting for their rights as individuals, because they are all part of the same nation, and their partisan tendencies do not relate to a specific group because everyone can decide for themselves, which is a complete different scenario regardless of who is in power. This is what makes first world countries successful, this kind of union, something that doesn't exist in third world countries divided by politically defined classes. So what happens when you bring those separations to first world countries? The same thing that happens in underdeveloped countries, you get underdevelopment, you get conflict, and we know that's not a good scenario. In short, in the US, women don't have rights, blacks don't have rights, gays don't have rights... American citizens have rights.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jul 31, 2019 23:01:44 GMT
Man, talk about an already strange conversation taking a turn to the surreal and bizarre. As someone who is living right now in a country whose president is openly fascist and promoting violence against the left/progressives and against our most vulnerable people (including, yes, natives, blacks, gays and women, who, at least over here, stratogustav , are really at a disadvantage), it's really strange to see some of you guys unironically adhering to similar far-right rethorics that brought my country to its current situation - over here, feminist/gay rights/black movements and the left have never been more necessary and, at the same time, more obviously persecuted by the state and its militias. Maybe you must have lived in a country that had an actual dictatorship to get how dangerous this far-right rethoric can get, I don't know. Seriously, don't naively adhere to this rethoric that unironically talks about how the world is filled with dangerous LJWs or feminists or something - this discourse is just creating strawmen for people to be paranoid and angry about. I can tell you that the alternative is much, much worse. That said, MeleeMonk , this is still a very unfortunate thread, man. I know this discussion is not new ( cobretti reminded us how Chasing Amy already parodied it), but it always sounded like reaching. One problem with your president being called a fascist, or a really foolish one perhaps, is liberalizing your firearms laws. Fascists don't want the other side to be armed.
Wasn't the left in charge of Brazil for some time before current pres?
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Aug 1, 2019 13:25:13 GMT
One problem with your president being called a fascist, or a really foolish one perhaps, is liberalizing your firearms laws. Fascists don't want the other side to be armed. This is not correct because of the price of goods in Brazil. Things get really expensive over here, quick example: the PS4 was, at release, US$399; over here, that went to R$4,000 (converting to dollars at the time, it would be around US$1,400), which means that a common good in the US becomes a luxury item for the high-midle and rich classes. The situation with guns is similar: even the simplest handgun costs around 6-7 months of minimum wage, which means that, even liberated, legal guns won't be affordable to poor and lower-middle classes, only to high-middle and rich - exactly the classes were you still find the most avid supporters of the current government. So gun liberation here wouldn't be arming his opposition, but his supporters. The situation is more obvious where his bigger interests reside: our rural areas. His proposed liberation gives a lot of liberty not just to the sale, but to the use of guns by big farmers and miners, which are also his supporters. Ever since the right assumed the government in 2016, there are a lot of conflicts between farmers/miners and native tribes, who are steadily losing federal protection and having their lands invaded by armed militias - just this week, a chief of a Wajãpi tribe was assassinated. His discourses are always encouraging farmers to get violent and his proposed gun liberation laws are trying to make the invasion of native territories for exploration even more of a reality. The invasion/devastation of the Amazon forest grew up astoundingly 39% just in these 8 months since he became the president, so that's not just discourse, but a very real risk. It's not just foolishness, mind you. His speeches are worrying not just because they are full of prejudice and outright inquisitorial-medieval views on society, but because he openly celebrates dictatorship as a form of government (considering the Brazilian dictatorship our "golden years") and praises people like Colonel Ustra for being a known torturer and killer in our dictatorship. And this is being put in practice: since last month, a lot of leaked conversations of the current Minister of Justice show that he is corrupt and was politically motivated when arrested Bolsonaro's main oppositor last year, pretty much frauding the elections. What is the president's and his minister's plan of action? Giving various declarations that the journalists will be arrested and signing an ordinance that allows them to expel foreigners from the country for being considered "dangerous" people (one of the journalists that unveiled the case is american, Glenn Greenwald). So they are rehearsing full-on censorship of the press, the only thing stopping them (until now) being our Supreme Court. Also, this week, he sneerily suggested that he either participated or have insider knowledge about the killing (and probable torture) of a missing person in the dictatorship, the father of the current president of the lawyer Bar association. This is a person who is celebrating a military dictatorship, open to the use of torture and murder of political opposition, that is trying to impose censorship on the press and arrest journalists, and that wants to arm his supporters, all while keeping close to him a corrupt Justice Minister and having close ties to Brazilian militias. Although they talk about having a liberal economy, their plans always point to a heavy protectionism of our oligarchies - put all this together and you'll get why we aren't using the word "fascism" here just as a general pejorative term, it's truly the basis of our current government. Hell, just to top the cake he even nominated his own son as embassador of Brazil in the US, and the guy doesn't even know english. See, extreme-right, nationalist and religious zealot rhetorics in the US may just appear as foolishness, but when they are copied by people in nations where the institutions aren't solid and the democracy isn't guaranteed, then you see how much damage they can make in a short time, it's very scary.
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