|
Post by manicottimafia on Jun 11, 2016 3:57:55 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planetoids and gravity physics isn't the "gimmick" that MeleeMonk hated in Galaxy. It was the motion controls. The gravity stuff is gameplay, not gimmick. Correct. Thank you for pointing that out, Dan. But to be honest, I hated the whole gravity "running around tiny spheres" system too. manicottimafia My point was that the coins in the pre-Galaxy Mario games actually required effort to acquire, unlike the star bits. And you make it sound like Sunshine had significant input delay, which is absolutely false. You said Galaxy was "built entirely around a gimmick" that you don't like. If you meant motion controls, then you are wrong. The motion controls in Galaxy are not nearly at the core of the gameplay. A flick of the wiimote to attack or collecting starbits by pointing at the screen is obviously not the meat of the game. As for coins, again, who cares? Collecting coins did nothing for you unless you were doing a 100 coin mission, which are the most unoriginal and monotonous missions you can do in those games. And controls, I don't know if it was severe but I think, and others will agree, it was there. And for a game as demanding as sunshine this does not work. So maybe I should be blaming the level design. The level design does not play nice with the amount of mobility you are given in my opinion. What is a specific problem I have? Falling off a thin metal beam over and over causing me to have to go through the whole first part of the level over and over. It did not feel challenging, it felt annoying.
|
|
stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
|
Post by stratogustav on Jun 11, 2016 9:31:57 GMT
Galaxy games are clearly superior, but Sunshine is a more important game because it did set the precedent for those games to happen.
3D World is the better game of all the 3D ones though, hands down. I love Super Mario 64 and I did beat it multiple times, but as a super fan of Super Mario 64 I recognize 3D World is superior, however I also recognize that Super Mario 64 is more important because it broke barriers, not just in the franchise, but in the industry.
Another weird scenario is that I actually love Super Mario World more than Super Mario Bros. 3. Yet I recognize Super Mario Bros. 3 is superior, even if I like it less.
I recognize this, not because Super Mario Bros. 3 is more important in precedence than Super Mario World, but because despite its limitations it holds just like Super Mario World, and that gives it the edge.
And despite anyone's opinions I support the idea that Super Mario Bros. 1 is a perfect game. It holds and it will always hold, it is fun, it is catchy, it is temptative, the gameplay, the artwork, the design, the sound, the music, the setting, the challenge, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that game, it is perfection, glitches included.
|
|
MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
|
Post by MeleeMonk on Jun 12, 2016 4:34:57 GMT
Correct. Thank you for pointing that out, Dan. But to be honest, I hated the whole gravity "running around tiny spheres" system too. manicottimafia My point was that the coins in the pre-Galaxy Mario games actually required effort to acquire, unlike the star bits. And you make it sound like Sunshine had significant input delay, which is absolutely false. You said Galaxy was "built entirely around a gimmick" that you don't like. If you meant motion controls, then you are wrong. The motion controls in Galaxy are not nearly at the core of the gameplay. A flick of the wiimote to attack or collecting starbits by pointing at the screen is obviously not the meat of the game. As for coins, again, who cares? Collecting coins did nothing for you unless you were doing a 100 coin mission, which are the most unoriginal and monotonous missions you can do in those games. And controls, I don't know if it was severe but I think, and others will agree, it was there. And for a game as demanding as sunshine this does not work. So maybe I should be blaming the level design. The level design does not play nice with the amount of mobility you are given in my opinion. What is a specific problem I have? Falling off a thin metal beam over and over causing me to have to go through the whole first part of the level over and over. It did not feel challenging, it felt annoying. Bro, I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. And also, what you're essentially talking about in Sunshine is the physics engine, NOT the controls. Yes, Sunshine's physics engine can seem much more unforgiving than 64's and Galaxy's at times, but once you learn to adapt to it the game becomes a whole lot more fun. Give it another chance and see for yourself.
|
|
|
Post by manicottimafia on Jun 12, 2016 17:04:00 GMT
You said Galaxy was "built entirely around a gimmick" that you don't like. If you meant motion controls, then you are wrong. The motion controls in Galaxy are not nearly at the core of the gameplay. A flick of the wiimote to attack or collecting starbits by pointing at the screen is obviously not the meat of the game. As for coins, again, who cares? Collecting coins did nothing for you unless you were doing a 100 coin mission, which are the most unoriginal and monotonous missions you can do in those games. And controls, I don't know if it was severe but I think, and others will agree, it was there. And for a game as demanding as sunshine this does not work. So maybe I should be blaming the level design. The level design does not play nice with the amount of mobility you are given in my opinion. What is a specific problem I have? Falling off a thin metal beam over and over causing me to have to go through the whole first part of the level over and over. It did not feel challenging, it felt annoying. Bro, I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. And also, what you're essentially talking about in Sunshine is the physics engine, NOT the controls. Yes, Sunshine's physics engine can seem much more unforgiving than 64's and Galaxy's at times, but once you learn to adapt to it the game becomes a whole lot more fun. Give it another chance and see for yourself. I don't want to sound mad. Just sayin. We cool.
|
|
|
Post by spidershinobi on Jun 13, 2016 3:06:21 GMT
Ok, so I'm just not organizing my schedule well enough to post regularly, but here I am right now! The reason why I chose Super Mario Sunshine is that it causes a lot of weird discussions whenever its name is dropped. Yes, weird. I call it that because this game is treated as the worst Mario game by a bunch of people (despite the New Super Mario Bros. series), but I found it to over-perform a few others in some areas. I love how FLUD can be used for spraying, hovering, rocketing or speeding, and it feels difficult for me to go back to "vanilla Mario" in SM64. In fact, going back to Peach's deserted castle just never felt right after Sunshine, it just doesn't have the feeling of fun that's in most other Mario games.
Another thing that makes me favor Sunshine is how memorable some situations are. While I do hold some levels of 64 close to my heart - Nessie is my favorite character from that game - the windmill stage with the fight against Petey, the whole lava incident in the pianta village and the overall feel of the main hub are things that just resonate more with me than the overall emptiness of 64. Mario games shouldn't feel empty, in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by teddykongcountry on Jun 15, 2016 3:57:29 GMT
It's been at least ten years since I played the game but one aspect that always stood out to me was this sort of dimensional rift present in several of the levels where Mario's get warped to a baffling arrangement of platforms. I loved the game for that.
I also remember these pinball style stages but I don't remember if they were from Sunshine or not. Those I did not love.
The variety of contexts for beach levels from ambience to carnival-themed really alongside a unique and expanding HUB town gave the game a lot of flavor, more than might be expected for a game confined by its dependence on a squirt-gun backpack.
It's funny because in most 3D (And 2D) platformers which I've played, water represents a nuisance and awkwardness for movement whereas Sunshine embraces water in all forms making it a vital instrument in Mario's endeavors.
Sure it was a bit odd to say the least getting used to the new Mario but I do respect the title for not being a simple Mario 64 x 2 and taking a tropical theme and exacerbating it accordingly. Plus there is a fair degree of challenge to the experience - anyone else recall fighting the squid on top of the tower?
I'll be so bold as to give it 5 sun stars out of 5 and no it's not perfect but if 5 stars were reserved for perfect games then no game would deserve a 5.
|
|
MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
|
Post by MeleeMonk on Jun 16, 2016 23:20:58 GMT
Very well spoken, teddykongcountry! I really loved the jetpack-less platforming sections too. *nods in agreement*
|
|
|
Post by Falcula18 on Aug 8, 2016 12:03:36 GMT
I should get a Wii so I can play this.
|
|