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Post by ModeratorNumber2 on Jun 7, 2016 6:58:34 GMT
So let's try this new concept; each week a member will choose a game to be discussed in a stickied thread. It will sort of become a "main game discussion" where we can go in-depth of the things we think of the game. It would be great if the members would choose a game that is at least somewhat known (something like Rayman). A game discussion about Firefly for the 2600 doesn't sparkthat much discussion because it's to obsure. But I'll leave that to the members to decide. I'll also leave a poll on a scale from 1-5 on how much you liked the game (of course this isn't veryaccurate, but it leaves sort of an impression).
This week:
Super Mario Sunshine
Choosen by: SpiderShinobi
Year: 2002
Developer: Nintendo EAD
Publisher: Nintendo
Platforms: Gamecube
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Armored Core Raven
Vanguard Ranger
Radio: The test is over. From this moment on, you are a Raven!
Posts: 1,737 
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Post by Armored Core Raven on Jun 7, 2016 15:01:32 GMT
I think it's an okay game nowadays, I used to hate it back in the day because all I wanted was a new good Mario game like the old trilogy on Entertainment System and the first Super Mario Land on Game Boy, just classic awesome fun on new modern hardware, but alas it was never to be as they've never gone back after they took the franchise in another direction with Super Mario World and Super Mario Land 2 Six Golden Coins. Yoshi's Island was still good but it wasn't a proper Mario game, just a great platformer in general.
In 2011 I acquired both GameCube and Mario Sunshine for myself, while it's not a good Mario game it's a half-decent 3D platformer and endlessly better than the other 3D Marios, it's average by general 3D platformer standards but it's at least playable and even mildly enjoyable at times.
I like the Island theme and most of the regular levels, I'm not a fan of the special levels with blocky Mario 64-esque/Galaxy prototype design and no waterpack (FLUDD, was it?) but at least they're short. I can care less about the minigames and such but it offers variety and a nice amount of content overall.
The music is okay if a bit generic, short, looping and repetitive, and while it's nothing I'd listen to outside of the game it's nothing too bad either.
I don't like the controls and the camera is pretty awful but at least it's a notable improvement over Mario 64 and sadly still much better than the newer 3D Marios, by 3D platformer standards it's below average at best.
Needless to say I hate high-pitched animu Mario, blonde bimbo Barbie Peach and all the other non-classic stuff even to this day, but it's arguably on a more tolerable level in Sunshine than the kick it into overdrive intolerable and insufferable torture that is the newer ones on Wii, Wii U and their clamshell designed dual screened handhelds.
I've never beaten Sunshine 100% but I have played through it to the end multiple times and gotten most of the Shine Sprites, just a couple of annoying Red Coins left that I have no interest in getting as I know full and well that there is no reward worth striving for upon reaching 100% completion.
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Post by manicottimafia on Jun 7, 2016 17:03:21 GMT
Decent, but kind of a drag.
The levels are too long and brutal. Many times you'll either fall from a high point on the map and have to go through the whole level again, or just blow 10 minutes on one jump. I think this is mainly because of the awful camera and lack-luster controls, but then again I don't think I'd like the levels very much regardless of those things.
Alright music, dumb cut-scenes, nice graphics. I liked Delfino as a hub.
The FLUDD gimmick is... there. It's alright I guess, but it isn't used much in the standard mode (at least in any interesting way) and it really doesn't aid mobility that much in the hover jump mode. In fact it probably just makes things worse as the level design demands you use this clunky hover in very precise ways.
I'll be honest, I never finished this game. I just couldn't take going through the same brutal levels over and over again. It isn't terrible, but for the 6th generation it's feels pretty dated.
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Pimpjira
Guardian Force Shooter
Posts: 1,102
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Post by Pimpjira on Jun 7, 2016 17:27:54 GMT
I liked FLUDD, I wish it would come back for another game. I liked pretty much everything about this game over than the camera being finicky at times. I have not gotten all the blue coins, because that seems to be more trouble than it's worth as many are just a pain to get and not fun. Not really a negative for the main game though since they are optional. I can see why it has mixed opinions though, but I really love the game so I voted a 5.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 7, 2016 19:15:02 GMT
This is the only Super Mario Bros. I haven't beat. I liked what I played, but it is my least favorite 3D Super Mario Bros. for sure. My favorite being Super Mario 3D World.
I guess the reason is that when this game came out I did not played it, at the time it was quite a big deal, it set the foundation for the later worldwide recognized as 10 games Mario Galaxies.
What I didn't like is the fact that he uses a water gun. There is nothing super about using weapons. Plus I had never being a fan of third person shooters adventure games like Rachet & Clank or Jack & Dexter. So no wonder I did not played this as much later on when I got to it.
I did like it enough for making me buy Epic Mickey and Epic Mickey 2 which use the same concept, but it doesn't take away the fact that they are my least favorite games I own on the Wii.
But like I said, maybe if I would had played it when it came on the GameCube I would had love it just like I love Super Mario 64 for example, but because I didn't then I'll never know.
It is still my intention to finish it 100%, just like I've done with every other Super Mario game, but that's probably my only reason, to say I had finished them all.
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,821
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Post by Cervantes on Jun 7, 2016 22:01:16 GMT
Ah, I never played it, but I heard it is, at the very least, an average game - not one of the best Mario games, but still a quality Nintendo release. Going by the opinions expressed here, it seems to be the general consensus.
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Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Jun 7, 2016 22:14:53 GMT
I think it's an okay game nowadays, I used to hate it back in the day because all I wanted was a new good Mario game like the old trilogy on Entertainment System and the first Super Mario Land on Game Boy, just classic awesome fun on new modern hardware, but alas it was never to be as they've never gone back after they took the franchise in another direction with Super Mario World and Super Mario Land 2 Six Golden Coins. Yoshi's Island was still good but it wasn't a proper Mario game, just a great platformer in general. I think you're gonna have to explain that. The first 3 games are all over the place, as far as gameplay goes. Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Land on GB are pretty similar (not counting the shooting stages), I'll give you that, but 2 is nothing like any other Mario and 3 is a whole lot like World. So what exactly are you looking for in a Mario game? |
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Post by Imperial Khador on Jun 8, 2016 18:54:28 GMT
I remember really enjoying the game, and the various uses of FLUDD, but I haven't picked it up in 10+ years, so my memories of it are too hazy for anything more in depth.
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Jun 9, 2016 8:03:22 GMT
so 5=amazing and 1=atrocious? That's how I'm rating it, since OP didn't specify how the rating system works.
Anyway, I FREAKING LOVE MARIO SUNSHINE!!! This is one of those games that I love just for the gameplay alone, which was AMAZING! Though there are still other good aspects about the game, the gameplay in Sunshine is simply first rate. To put it simply, the game is just downright fun to play! It's one of those games that's easy to pick up and play, is very accessible, but it quite difficult to master, made even more difficult by the game's high difficulty level, which is important to note, as most 3D Mario games are not known for being challenging. But that's ultimately what I really love about Sunshine; the fun, challenging gameplay. Now admittedly the idea of playing a game that is centered around the concept of cleaning up messes doesn't sound very fun on paper, but thankfully the FLUDD mechanics are well implemented and add a lot of depth to the game's platforming, and makes cleaning stuff up surprisingly very satisfying. I think that alone sells the game. This is made even better by the fact that it plays completely normally and doesn't have a bullshit gimmicky control scheme like that casualized piece of pig shit SM Galaxy had.
Anyway, back to Sunshine. The music is also a lot of fun; in particular, "Sky and Sea" is my favorite music track from the entire Mario series. The level design in Sunshine is often very good, and is overall good, despite some...less than stellar portions (ahem, hotel levels).
In the end though, it's a great game. It's what I like to call a "feel good" game, in that playing it is always a good time, almost like you're on vacation (see what I did there?). I think a large part of its success is also due to the excellent Gamecube controller, which is still one of the best, if not THE best, controllers Nintendo has ever produced.
I rate Sunshine a 4/5. Check it out if you haven't already.
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,827
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Post by Balder on Jun 9, 2016 9:19:44 GMT
MeleeMonk yeah you've got it right. I stated it previously in another thread: 5 is close to perfect, and 1 is atrocious/abysmal.
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Post by manicottimafia on Jun 9, 2016 16:22:20 GMT
MeleeMonk Galaxy was built off a mechanic that allowed it to have unique gameplay that developed as the game progressed. It's good controls allowed the player to ease into and master the new challenges it presented. Sunshine was built off a mechanic that does not offer the amount of variety galaxy delivered. It can be engaging and clever at times, but the game's poor controls (and more importantly its bad camera) prevents one from noticing this for most of the game.
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Jun 9, 2016 22:06:55 GMT
Balder Ahh good. manicottimafia I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more. Sunshine's controls are NOT poor. How are they "poor"? You didn't even give a reason why you think they're poor. I think Galaxy had a very tedious control scheme. You have to shake the wii remote just to attack, and collecting star bits with the remote involved no challenge whatsoever, because unlike collecting coins in the 2D and earlier 3D Mario games, there was absolutely no risk in collecting them. You simply point at them with the wii remote, and you've got 'em. It's easier than pie. The game was built entirely around a gimmick that I don't like, which is why I hate it. I don't regret selling it.
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Post by manicottimafia on Jun 10, 2016 16:27:26 GMT
MeleeMonk They are not tight enough. Many times I would try to land on a thin platform after hovering with fludd only to slip forward after landing and fall to my death. I later tried to unjust my landing only to overcorrect and fall to my death. Now when the levels aren't as demanding this is not a problem, but as you yourself said this game is harder than most 3D marios. The controls do not justify this spike in difficulty. As for starbits vs. coins, nobody could care less. 3D mario was never made better by the collection of coins because it is almost completely arbitrary. If anything starbits are better because you can stun enemies with them and purchase things with them, not that these mechanics add hardly any depth at all, but it's still better than useless coins. I guess there are the 100 coin missions, but honestly I've never known anyone who enjoyed those. Besides, red coin missions just make them redundant anyway. As for flicking the wrist to attack; big deal. It does not make the game more challenging nor make it easier so it does not matter. Sure it may feel kind of dumb, but does not ruin the experience. I would still argue that whether you like it or not, galaxy still has the more fleshed out gimmick. Jumping from planetoids and using small spherical space to your advantage just simply allows for more variety than a hover jump and weapon do. But if you don't like the gimmick you won't like the game, I get that.
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Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Jun 10, 2016 22:46:33 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planetoids and gravity physics isn't the "gimmick" that MeleeMonk hated in Galaxy. It was the motion controls. The gravity stuff is gameplay, not gimmick. |
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Jun 10, 2016 23:34:32 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planetoids and gravity physics isn't the "gimmick" that MeleeMonk hated in Galaxy. It was the motion controls. The gravity stuff is gameplay, not gimmick. Correct. Thank you for pointing that out, Dan. But to be honest, I hated the whole gravity "running around tiny spheres" system too. manicottimafia My point was that the coins in the pre-Galaxy Mario games actually required effort to acquire, unlike the star bits. And you make it sound like Sunshine had significant input delay, which is absolutely false. |
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