MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
|
Post by MeleeMonk on Apr 25, 2022 23:55:36 GMT
I'd love to know what game companies you guys think have the absolute best modding communities.
Personally, in my own experience, I think Rockstar, Bethesda, Valve and Nintendo have the best modding communities.
|
|
Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,820
|
Post by Cervantes on May 1, 2022 3:23:40 GMT
Definitely Bethesda. It's impressive how they release completely broken, buggy games with very outdated engines/graphics that somehow the modding community always manage to fix and turn into some of the most beautiful games ever. From my hundreds of hours playing Skyrim, most of them were just being amazed by carefully created mods. Besides all the extra content and total conversions: entire new games created as mods.
Valve and their Source engine *had* the most thriving community in the mid-2000s, but then they almost stopped developing games in the last decade, so the community doesn't have many newer games to work with. There's still a constant influx of mods, but I don't think it reaches the same levels from when Valve was releasing Half-Life 2 and The Orange Box.
What impresses me the most is Nintendo, due to the company being very against mods and the games being on consoles, but even then the community is still very alive, especially now that games like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were reverse-engineered and are being modded like crazy.
I don't know much about Rockstar, though. There's a lot of GTA mods, but I don't see many news about, let's say, entirely new games being created on them, so while there is fan-created content and graphical upgrades, I don't know how far their modding community pushes their engines and games.
|
|
billspreston
Cheru Wing
I wrote Max Reebo's first 3 hits
Posts: 336
|
Post by billspreston on May 1, 2022 14:03:24 GMT
I'm amazed the lengths people have gone to with getting Gamecube era stuff in 4k. Didn't the new Duckstation PSX emulator come from one of the people behind Dolphin? He just decided to take a stab at it and fixed the polygon wobble that native hardware had in a very short time.
|
|
stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
|
Post by stratogustav on May 12, 2022 13:59:08 GMT
Those sound like good choices, I don't have any modded games, but I have seen some good ones on videos online, mostly Team Ninja stuff and Tomb Raider.
|
|
MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
|
Post by MeleeMonk on Sept 1, 2023 6:07:34 GMT
Definitely Bethesda. It's impressive how they release completely broken, buggy games with very outdated engines/graphics that somehow the modding community always manage to fix and turn into some of the most beautiful games ever. From my hundreds of hours playing Skyrim, most of them were just being amazed by carefully created mods. Besides all the extra content and total conversions: entire new games created as mods. Valve and their Source engine *had* the most thriving community in the mid-2000s, but then they almost stopped developing games in the last decade, so the community doesn't have many newer games to work with. There's still a constant influx of mods, but I don't think it reaches the same levels from when Valve was releasing Half-Life 2 and The Orange Box. What impresses me the most is Nintendo, due to the company being very against mods and the games being on consoles, but even then the community is still very alive, especially now that games like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were reverse-engineered and are being modded like crazy. I don't know much about Rockstar, though. There's a lot of GTA mods, but I don't see many news about, let's say, entirely new games being created on them, so while there is fan-created content and graphical upgrades, I don't know how far their modding community pushes their engines and games. Sigh, another CD Projekt Red fanboy with access to the internet. (how is this legal?) Ok, I'm gonna have to lay the absolute smackdown on Cervantes here about Bethesda. As a lifelong Bethesda gamer, I can confirm that Cervantes is at least partially wrong about their game engines. I mean, he has no idea, does he? That OBLIVION WAS THE SINGLE MOST TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED/AMBITIOUS GAME OF 2006?Forget about the fact that Oblivion added sprawling forests with thousands of trees and large grasslands with actual polygonal grass. Forget about the fact that it had the single best facial generation system of any open world game at the time (all NPCs emote dynamically). Forget about the fact that it had the most advanced character creation system of any game by that point. The fact that it revolutionized AI in open world games is what put it over the top and made it 2006's biggest innovator & killer app in gaming. Oblivion's AI was so detailed for an open world game that even the AI in modern open world sandbox games (to my understanding) still hasn't matched its level of detail. What I'm referring to is the number of NPC specific scripts. Just about every NPC in oblivion (save for generic NPCs like guards & bandits) has totally unique scripts, something that was completely unheard of in open world games at that time. What this means is that they all have daily routines that are unique to them, which is MIND BLOWING for a game of its scale. It would be like if all the pedestrians in a GTA game were named NPCs that could be interacted with, led fully unique lives within the game complete with daily routines, and did not respawn upon being killed. Like I said, MIND BLOWING. And YES, despite what the Oblivion fandom says, most of the radiant AI behavior you see in this video is found literally everywhere in-game, but it's far less obvious and more realistic than in this early tech demo, which is a good thing because somethings in this demonstration like that librarian bit literally made no sense. Oblivion's Radiant AI wasn't cancelled, it was just refined and streamlined a bit for the final game. Oblivion's AI was so detailed that it often crashed the game, because it had literally 10x the number of scripts that the braindead AI in Morrowind had. This is why Bethesda actually had to scale back certain skills from Morrowind like conjuration, because summoning 10 NPCs in Oblivion at once would cause too many scripts to run so the game would crash. As someone who's messed around with console commands I can confirm this. Back when I was naive I used to accuse Oblivion of shamelessly dumbing down or gutting out cool features/skills from Morrowind like conjuration, but once I learned the full extent of Oblivion's technical prowess, these omissions made perfect sense to me because without them the player could crash the game engine harder than the Titanic. Oblivion was definitely a "quality over quantity" type of game compared to previous Elder Scrolls titles like Morrowind and Daggerfall, which both featured several thousand NPCs but with only a small handful of scripts each and maps that felt much larger and had a much better use of land space but were extremely barren and featured virtually no trees, with no real forests to be found. And as much as I detest Skyrim for gutting out so much of what made Oblivion exceptional and what the Elder Scrolls was known for like the character creation system, the crafting systems (i.e. spellmaking), the attributes, and, case in point, the radiant AI system, Skyrim still at least was one of the prettiest open world games for its time, with better ragdolls and animations than most open world first person games from that time. So even though Skyrim wasn't as cutting edge or over the top as Oblivion in the technical department, it was still one of the best open world first person games in that regard. Unfortunately, when it comes to modding, Bethesda's modding community is probably going to get worse now that they're owned by Microsoft, who are known for having a vicious attitude towards fan projects/mods from what I've heard (an example is how they took down El Dewrito). As if Creation Club wasn't bad enough, now they're owned by f*cking Microsoft, which could mean curtains for any large-scale modding projects for Bethesda games down the road. Valve's modding community, on the other hand, is only expected to improve with the recent announcement of Counter Strike 2. I'm glad Valve got their sh*t together and is starting to make real games again. Anyway, I still think Nintendo has the most important modding community for the vast overhauls to some of their most infamous games like Smash Bros Bawl, not to mention mods that elaborately enhance many of their most celebrated games or cult classics like Melee and Smash 64. A great example of this is the recent Smash 64 mod called Smash Remix: ...which is basically the biggest love-letter to any hard core N64 fanboy since it even adds characters not owned by Nintendo like Goemon and Marina Liteyears. I'll have to make a separate post explaining my opinion on the Rockstar modding community since this one has already gone on for way too long.
|
|
Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,820
|
Post by Cervantes on Sept 1, 2023 14:30:24 GMT
MeleeMonk - To be fair, I was mostly thinking of modern Bethesda, Skyrim/Fallout 4 Bethesda. Morrowind and Oblivion were really cutting edge tech at their releases considering they're open-world games, I'll give you that.
|
|
MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
|
Post by MeleeMonk on Sept 2, 2023 15:02:54 GMT
MeleeMonk - To be fair, I was mostly thinking of modern Bethesda, Skyrim/Fallout 4 Bethesda. Morrowind and Oblivion were really cutting edge tech at their releases considering they're open-world games, I'll give you that. NO! Cervantes, I am sorry to inform you that you are STILL wrong. At least, partially wrong. In regards to technological achievements in game engine design, Morrowind is NOT on the same level as Oblivion. I repeat, NOT. Even when you compare it to technologically revolutionary games from that same era like Trespasser and Black & White (both of which came out before Morrowind), Morrowind still falls very short of hitting that benchmark. It is true that it was one of the earliest truly open world 3D games, and in fact might have been the very first truly 3D open world first-person game (unlike Daggerfall which used 2D sprites for nearly everything), which is a triumph in and of itself. And it is true that Morrowind had extremely impressive graphics for a first person game of its time (described as a "resource pig" by 2002 standards). And having played it the graphics/textures still look surprisingly ok to this day, despite the sometimes extremely limited animations. But that's where the technological achievements end, because the sad fact is that Morrowind has some of the most primitive AI of any 3D game I've ever played, practically nothing in the way of flora (i.e. trees, forests, grass, etc.), and absolutely no physics to speak of or any extra bells and whistles like that. I get the feeling that Bethesda's main priority with Morrowind was just to translate the Daggerfall formula into a pretty-looking fully 3D game and not waste time experimenting with elaborate AI or physics or anything like that. It definitely wasn't an ambitious excursion in game design like other games from that era such as Trespasser, Balck & White, and Halo CE were, all of which were truly state-of-the-art, unlike Morrowind (and all of which, to reiterate, came before Morrowind). It takes more than just excellent graphics and open-world maps to classify as the "best of its kind" when it came to 2002 gaming; even by that point, all those aforementioned games (Trespasser, Black and White, Halo CE) had already came and left their mark on the industry forever. So when you factor all of this in, Morrowind wasn't actually that revolutionary in regards to techonolgy. Oblivion, however, I do feel comfortable ranking among those three games as well as other revolutionary PC exclusives that came later like Crysis as being the most technologically ground-breaking games of the 2000s. Because not only did it up the ante on graphics, but it also, more importantly, revolutionized AI in truly open world games. Forget about the fact that Oblivion added full havok physics support or how it added a truly forested landscape full of thousands of trees, because it's the AI that truly put Oblivion over the top in comparison to the level of detail seen in other fully open world games from the mid 2000s or before. I can't stress enough that the AI in Oblivion was something that the game industry had never seen before in truly open world games. This alone is what put Oblivion in the game design Hall of Fame, and when you combine that with all the other enhancements/innovations Oblivion brought to the table for the open world/sandbox genre of games like Havok physics, forested landscapes, the hyper-detailed character creator (which wouldn't even be surpassed until Saints Row 2 BTW), then it becomes clear that Oblivion is absolutely without a doubt worthy of ranking among the most technologically advanced games of the 2000s all time like Black and White, Crysis, Halo CE, etc. for the landmark innovations and sheer scale of detail it brought to its game engine. When it comes to sequels, Oblivion really might be the biggest technological upgrade of any game I've ever played. The Elder Scrolls went from having a nice game engine in Morrowind to having the single most technologically advanced engine for an open world game with Oblivion. Even Crysis, which was a spiritual sequel to Far Cry that came out a year later, wasn't truly open world. It looked groundbreaking graphically even compared to Oblivion while also featuring detailed AI and had more programing novelties than you could shake a stick at, but despite Crysis being the go-to PC benchmarking juggernaut of that era Oblivion still had a leg above Crysis from an engine perspective by being truly open world, an excuse you could not make for the aforementioned Crysis. For the record, you should NEVER listen to what the Morrowind fanboys or the Oblivion fanboys say about these games. I repeat, NEVER. I learned that the hard way. Despite my love for these two games, the Elder Scrolls fandoms continue to rank as some of the absolute worst you can find. Let me explain: Morrowind fanboys are a bunch of disgustingly nostalgia-blinded loyalists who still to this day consider it a timeless, untouchable masterpiece of the genre that does everything better than its sequels (spoiler alert: it has aged like garbage and even for its time had more than a few flaws), Oblivion fanboys are just a huge bunch of clowns and memesters who have succeeded (much to my frustration) in making a mockery out of what was quite literally the most technologically advanced game of 2006 (and one of the most ambitious games of the 2000s), and Skyrim fanboys are a bunch of mainstream casuals who in most cases haven't even played the older games. So yeah, take whatever they say with a grain of salt. Regarding Morrowind, I still it consider it a much better game overall than Skyrim (at the very least it's a better Elder Scrolls game), but it hasn't aged well primarily as a result of the poor collision detection and the crude AI, and is very difficult to get into due to the brutal nature of the leveling system combined with the much stronger survival sim elements. I personally would rank it in the middle: above Skyrim but below Oblivion, when not taking the first two TES games into consideration (which wouldn't really be a fair comparison anyways, considering their quasi-3D design and randomly generated worlds). It's definitely not worth $15 by today's standards, but considering I'm a hardcore fan who bought his copy on sale, I'm not complaining.
|
|