Spirit Bomb
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#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Nov 29, 2016 8:34:15 GMT
I get really annoyed whenever I buy a PC game and discover that it does not allow you to open up the console and use console commands. A lot of PC ports of console games in particular (like Halo CE for example) seem to deny players access to this feature, which I find rather insulting. Console commands almost always exponentially enhance a game's entertainment value and give the player virtually limitless freedom, which is why I literally will not buy PC games if I know they don't have this feature.
So again my main question is: why don't all PC games allow the player to use console commands? Is there a good explanation/reason for this? Personally I think it should be a mandatory feature in every PC title.
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Armored Core Raven
Vanguard Ranger
Radio: The test is over. From this moment on, you are a Raven!
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Post by Armored Core Raven on Nov 29, 2016 9:32:20 GMT
The main reason most games lack a command console is because no game has a command console programmed into it by default.
A command console like that of Doom, Quake or Unreal Tournament games for example have been created from scratch by the developers as part of the game engine for those games specifically because the developers wanted it as a feature in their game, just like games have a save feature or sound and screen settings, they all have to be added manually by the programmers during the game's development.
Most developers don't add extra things like command consoles in their games because it takes time, effort and money to do so and it's ultimately a feature that is used exclusively by PCs to edit settings in real-time to optimize for different PC setups as PCs lack the standards that for example consoles and handhelds have.
Many developers make their games so that they can be easily ported to other platforms, like consoles, and anything that takes up extra resources like command consoles that aren't vital to making a game run are lost when ported for optimization reasons on more limited and standardized hardware, so a lot of developers have it as standard praxis not to add anything that'll get removed later anyway.
Command consoles for console ports are not needed for optimization reasons anymore due to the game already being optimized for the console in the porting process, so it becomes a redundant feature as simple cheat codes can replace the command console cheats, which are the only things left a command console could do for a console port at that point.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Nov 30, 2016 2:21:51 GMT
@armored Core Raven Don't you think that the packaging/descriptions of all PC games should clearly state whether or not the game includes console commands? Personally I think at least that should be mandatory.
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Armored Core Raven
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Radio: The test is over. From this moment on, you are a Raven!
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Post by Armored Core Raven on Nov 30, 2016 12:17:40 GMT
It's not a standard to have a command console so I never expect a game to have a one, it's just a pleasant suprise when they do, if anything I think if they have a command console they should have it listed as one of the game's features but I don't see how anyone could enforce it as mandatory to do so.
Technically anyone can release a game for PC because it's an open market, unlike the console market where you have to license your game and follow specific rules to get it released, if Sony made it mandatory to list such a thing on the back of the covers for PS4 games for example that would work, but nobody has that authority over PC games.
Also I don't think game developers and publishers would be very happy about having to point out what their games are missing, they like to list and brag about things their games have, not what they lack or the problems they have.
So as nice as it would be and as much as I'd like PC games to be clear about certain things, I can understand why it's not like that. Personally I stopped being a PC gamer when they all switched to digital distribution and Steam well over a decade ago, I've stuck with older PC games only after that, I'm not okay with modern PC gaming standards at all.
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Armored Core Raven
Vanguard Ranger
Radio: The test is over. From this moment on, you are a Raven!
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Post by Armored Core Raven on Nov 30, 2016 13:01:22 GMT
It should be said I much strongly prefer to have all options and settings available in the settings menu than hidden away as cryptic commands in a command console though, command consoles are only good if the developer fails to implement proper options for the settings menu, I shouldn't have to learn unintuitive text commands to enable more detailed shadows or something, that's just retarded and lazy game design. A command console with the rest of the options missing from the settings menu is better than not having more options at all, but had they just put them all in the settings menu the command console would be rendered completely redundant for all sakes and purposes.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 1, 2016 7:53:45 GMT
It should be said I much strongly prefer to have all options and settings available in the settings menu than hidden away as cryptic commands in a command console though, command consoles are only good if the developer fails to implement proper options for the settings menu, I shouldn't have to learn unintuitive text commands to enable more detailed shadows or something, that's just retarded and lazy game design. A command console with the rest of the options missing from the settings menu is better than not having more options at all, but had they just put them all in the settings menu the command console would be rendered completely redundant for all sakes and purposes. Wait, you DO know that console commands are primarily for spawning objects and manually altering game scripts, right? In my experience console commands do not affect the graphics settings at all. What PC games that you've played allowed you to alter graphics via console commands?
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Armored Core Raven
Vanguard Ranger
Radio: The test is over. From this moment on, you are a Raven!
Posts: 1,738
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Post by Armored Core Raven on Dec 1, 2016 17:07:32 GMT
It should be said I much strongly prefer to have all options and settings available in the settings menu than hidden away as cryptic commands in a command console though, command consoles are only good if the developer fails to implement proper options for the settings menu, I shouldn't have to learn unintuitive text commands to enable more detailed shadows or something, that's just retarded and lazy game design. A command console with the rest of the options missing from the settings menu is better than not having more options at all, but had they just put them all in the settings menu the command console would be rendered completely redundant for all sakes and purposes. Wait, you DO know that console commands are primarily for spawning objects and manually altering game scripts, right? In my experience console commands do not affect the graphics settings at all. What PC games that you've played allowed you to alter graphics via console commands? I've used commands to spawn enemies and items, yes, but never primarily as it's such a pain to do with text commands imo and I've never changed anything more advanced than that like game scripting, I doubt it's even possible in the games I have with command consoles. All games with a command console I've played have had graphical and other game settings available as text commands, usually with additional options that you don't get in the settings menu. The Quake, Unreal Tournament and Serious Sam games are some examples. Keep in mind I don't play PC games newer than ~2004 due to Steam and the online focus that killed modern PC gaming for me.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 1, 2016 21:23:20 GMT
Wait, you DO know that console commands are primarily for spawning objects and manually altering game scripts, right? In my experience console commands do not affect the graphics settings at all. What PC games that you've played allowed you to alter graphics via console commands? I've used commands to spawn enemies and items, yes, but never primarily as it's such a pain to do with text commands imo and I've never changed anything more advanced than that like game scripting, I doubt it's even possible in the games I have with command consoles. All games with a command console I've played have had graphical and other game settings available as text commands, usually with additional options that you don't get in the settings menu. The Quake, Unreal Tournament and Serious Sam games are some examples. Keep in mind I don't play PC games newer than ~2004 due to Steam and the online focus that killed modern PC gaming for me.In response to that last statement, have you heard of GOG.com? "GOG" stands for Good Old Games, and the website offers both retro and modern titles, completely DRM free!
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Armored Core Raven
Vanguard Ranger
Radio: The test is over. From this moment on, you are a Raven!
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Post by Armored Core Raven on Dec 1, 2016 21:43:02 GMT
As far as I know gog is digital distribution only, so I haven't had any reason to look into it any further as I am exclusively interested in buying physical copies. When it's digital only it needs to be completely free both from money and DRM before I can be interested.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 2, 2016 1:41:42 GMT
Why do you refuse digital downloads that aren't free money-wise?
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Armored Core Raven
Vanguard Ranger
Radio: The test is over. From this moment on, you are a Raven!
Posts: 1,738
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Post by Armored Core Raven on Dec 2, 2016 2:23:46 GMT
If they're digital they have no value so of course I won't pay money for them. Free games I'm okay with if they're digital only.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 2, 2016 3:12:48 GMT
Ahh, that actually makes a lot of sense. I never think about selling games, so that's why I didn't understand your reasoning at first. I regret selling pretty much every game that I've ever sold, because I really miss playing them. Some were difficult to acquire (like Astal and Darius Gaiden on the Saturn, and Streets of Rage 3 on the Genesis).
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 2, 2016 3:34:41 GMT
The main reason most games lack a command console is because no game has a command console programmed into it by default. A command console like that of Doom, Quake or Unreal Tournament games for example have been created from scratch by the developers as part of the game engine for those games specifically because the developers wanted it as a feature in their game, just like games have a save feature or sound and screen settings, they all have to be added manually by the programmers during the game's development. I'm under the impression that it's the contrary. Cheat codes are certainly added later, but console commands look to me as ways to debug/test the game, so I think every game has them in some form before being ready to be released - then the commands are taken out. That's why, in games like Skyrim, you can enable/disable various quests and other things in the engine itself if you know the exact right commands, to the point that it was necessary to fix some broken quests through the use of them - and the commands are so technical that they certainly look like a programmer thing, not something created for the players. That also go for games like Portal 2, in which you could even activate a coop mode in the same computer before it was officially possible. Of course, in id Software games and others, they certainly also left the console commands for fun, but I still think they were primarily created to test the game. The reason why they're not left on many games anymore is probably because of online modes, achievements and other stuff - so, basically, the same reason why we also don't get cheat codes. Also, Armored Core Raven, after you buy a game on GOG, you can burn it to any DVD/USB drive, print a cover and just create your own physical copy (the games have no DRM, so you can do that with no restrictions). If that's still not ok, though, IndieBox is a service that releases physical, DRM free copies of famous indie games, and the boxes look neat: store.theindiebox.com/ It's just for indie games, but that's a nice way to get current pc games on physical copies.
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Spirit Bomb
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
#DeathToAmerica #DeathToTheAmericas #DeathToChristianity #DeathToFascism
Posts: 3,651
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Dec 2, 2016 9:37:31 GMT
Cervantes I'm so glad you showed up! Thank you for the helpful info. It is indeed a shame that console commands seem to be going out of fashion. Say, that reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask you: does GTA IV PC have console commands? I know we talked about the PC port recently so I was curious.
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,863
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Post by Cervantes on Dec 2, 2016 18:39:36 GMT
Spirit Bomb - Thanks, mate! GTA 4 does have some console commands/cheat codes (sometimes it's hard to differentiate the two of them!). Here they are: gta.wikia.com/wiki/Cheats_in_GTA_IVConcidentally, a few days after we talked about the pc port, Rockstar released the first patch in 6 years. I still haven't tested it, but it seems to fix a few bugs, betters its performance and now it connects to GfWL again without needing an external program. It's not enough to make it a good port, but maybe they'll release more patchs this month? I wish they could take GfWL out of the game, as most games did (Dark Souls, SF4, Resident Evil 5 etc.). This alone would make the port good in my eyes.
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