Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 17:11:25 GMT
As far as reviews or assessments go, I would rather have someone be a bit overly critical than not enough so. Remember that these game companies don't care about you or I-- they're in business to make money from us as consumers. If I am to be targeted as a consumer, then my only real agency comes from my ability to choose-- to consume their product or not. The key to making an informed decision is gathering information beforehand; reviews by both members of the mainstream media and average users are my main source of such information before making a purchasing decision. Here's the big one: taste is relative, but just because I can overlook a product's flaws doesn't mean that they're not there or that I won't acknowledge them. I find a lot of people sweep faults of any kind 'under the rug' instead of admitting them and emphasizing exactly *how and why* they're outweighed by the positives.
I believe I posted this on the old forum, but back in 2005, Dan Hsu, the editor of Electronics Gaming Monthly magazine, released a highly controversial editorial in which he claimed that a source had told him about underhanded practices in which certain other magazines exchanged content for advertising agreements. That same year, Hsu asked important questions about the 360's reliability issues when no one else dared (for fear of ruining the hype machine), and in 2008 he called out sponsors (Midway's Mortal Kombat team, Sony's sports division and Ubisoft) for refusing to work with EGM because their games didn't get positive reviews. I respect journalists like Hsu because he has the balls to call BS when he sees it and show us the ugly truths game companies would rather we didn't. We need more reporting like that...not less.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Jan 28, 2016 18:08:03 GMT
@player1 - And that's why I like your posts so much, mate!  See, I have absolutely no problem with negative reviews (even overtly ones, as they're usually the funniest!). The real problem is twofold: 1. It's not the negative reviews, but the negative culture built around them. AVGN does a video about the Sega CD, and then you see a lot of people on the internet saying the Sega CD was trash and a commercial failure with no good games... Even though it sold well (especially for a peripheral) and has a lot of great games. Some people watch a comical sketch and immediately assume it is a professional review with real informative values - and as these negative videos usually attract more attention (AVGN, Zero Punctuation, Jim Sterling etc.), you see more people basing their opinions on them, even though their original intentions might be different. AVGN has said countless times he's more worried about making a funny video, so he just chooses the worst parts of a given game and greatly exagerates them. Just compare his NES Top Gun video with CGR's one: when I played it as a kid, I remember my feelings were much closer to what Mark says about the game. 2. Sometimes, even when you get a serious negative review, it may be seriously misinformed. One very known example is IGN's God Hand review, compared here to the review of an obvious shovelware...  And then you have your standard Let's Play videos that form so much of the internet's opinion on games nowadays. I remember there was a James and Mike Mondays in which they were complaining about how bad the N64 Indiana Jones game was since the character was poisoned by a snake and was quickly dying in the very first level of the game... The problem is: if they paused the game just once, they would have seen that there was an antidote in the menu. So, basically, they made a negative video about the game without pressing the start button even once before saying the game was bugged and garbage. A lot of people in the comments of the video, without having played the game, were automatically agreeing with them. The problem aren't negative reviews per se; the problem is when people agree with them without a second thought. |
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fsfsxii
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Post by fsfsxii on Jan 28, 2016 22:36:40 GMT
@player1 - And that's why I like your posts so much, mate! See, I have absolutely no problem with negative reviews (even overtly ones, as they're usually the funniest!). The real problem is twofold: 1. It's not the negative reviews, but the negative culture built around them. AVGN does a video about the Sega CD, and then you see a lot of people on the internet saying the Sega CD was trash and a commercial failure with no good games... Even though it sold well (especially for a peripheral) and has a lot of great games. Some people watch a comical sketch and immediately assume it is a professional review with real informative values - and as these negative videos usually attract more attention (AVGN, Zero Punctuation, Jim Sterling etc.), you see more people basing their opinions on them, even though their original intentions might be different. AVGN has said countless times he's more worried about making a funny video, so he just chooses the worst parts of a given game and greatly exagerates them. Just compare his NES Top Gun video with CGR's one: when I played it as a kid, I remember my feelings were much closer to what Mark says about the game. 2. Sometimes, even when you get a serious negative review, it may be seriously misinformed. One very known example is IGN's God Hand review, compared here to the review of an obvious shovelware... And then you have your standard Let's Play videos that form so much of the internet's opinion on games nowadays. I remember there was a James and Mike Mondays in which they were complaining about how bad the N64 Indiana Jones game was since the character was poisoned by a snake and was quickly dying in the very first level of the game... The problem is: if they paused the game just once, they would have seen that there was an antidote in the menu. So, basically, they made a negative video about the game without pressing the start button even once before saying the game was bugged and garbage. A lot of people in the comments of the video, without having played the game, were automatically agreeing with them. The problem aren't negative reviews per se; the problem is when people agree with them without a second thought. Damn, what is it with god hand and me? A few days ago i was suddenly met with a barrage of information about the game, and yesterday, i bought it. Its like we're destined or something. Wonder if this is gonna be my first kiss! <3 Anyway, i should re-iterate on my stance. I'm fine with professional reviews, as they are meant to inform you, but sometimes there is something like G4TV reviews (I've been watching them lately, for some reason). From what i can assess, they're trying to be funny, way too hard, even panning some games critically at times. I watched the God Hand review from G4, and nothing made sense after i played the game. You could say they had a sum of money to agitate them towards the game (AKA Bribery) see, now im trying too hard. James and Mike sometimes they feel like they never played a game before. Don't get me started on jim sterling. Regardless, its the fans themselves that piss me off, writing off anything as a negative thing, regardless of how small it is, makes me cringe. See the Final Fantasy community, for years i've heard talk about how bad FFXIII was. I played the game 2 years ago, and found it to be a really great game. This is one of many instances where i would hear a certain game is horrible, then get to play it, and turns out to be a decent game. Thats why i decided not to lend my ears to anyone for anything, 9 times out of 10 its something negative and hyperbolic. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 1:05:34 GMT
Cervantes: thanks! Agreed with the "me too" and lack of independent critical-thinking mentality that many people seem to embrace. fsfsxii: I have the FFXIII trilogy, but haven't played it. I'm curious to see if its as "bad" as everyone claims it is. I'm also thinking about buying a used copy of Aliens: Colonial Marines just for the heck of it (I was looking forward to it until reviews came out).
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Post by spidershinobi on Jan 30, 2016 23:03:48 GMT
That's why I rarely respect reviewers. Few people know this, but one of the series I was hyped the most for during its first years was God of War. Why not, uh? Games looked good, everyone said they were good, reviews indicated it was good, and then I actually played one game.
Likewise, I wasn't giving Golden Axe Beast Rider a chance until a friend got it and showed me the CGR review.
Another episode that upset me was how I blindy got Trine 2 (based on reviews and videos, of course). The game was waaaaaaay less than I had imagined.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
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Post by fsfsxii on Jan 30, 2016 23:52:03 GMT
spidershinobiShame about trine, i loved the first Trine game, but for some reason the 2nd game never interested me. They've come out with a 3rd game recently.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jan 31, 2016 3:13:53 GMT
fsfsxii is right about G4/X-Play reviews trying to be funny. When Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater came out, they did a "funny review" that made the game seem like a light hearted spoof of spy films. While the spy film element is in there, it is far from light hearted. I actually stayed away from it for a while because of that. I only picked up the game along with MGS2 because Amazon had a sale on the years ago. I am glad I didn't listen to X-Play for that long on it (they did give it a good score though) since it became one of my favorite games of all time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 18:43:29 GMT
spidershinobi: I actually enjoyed the God of War series-- although Devil May Cry blazed a trail, it was the former that reinvigorated the 3D action genre. I just lost interest after they started milking the franchise to death and made a totally unnecessary sequel (a la Star Wars).
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Feb 1, 2016 10:21:57 GMT
I've noticed that people seem to enjoy complaining about stuff more than praising things. I wonder why?
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Feb 1, 2016 16:18:49 GMT
@player1 and spidershinobi - Are you guys talking about character action games? Is this my cue to start praising Ninja Gaiden again? |
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Post by spidershinobi on Feb 3, 2016 0:53:38 GMT
CervantesNot sure, but if it's something you feel like doing... @player1 I think that it was important for reviewers to be able to understand videogames and review games according to the perspective of someone who understands, and not review them from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand and would rather not understand at all. What I'm trying to say is that most of them misguided me into believing those games were good and I almost took the bite (in my wallet) due to bad information. I'm not saying that God of War can't be enjoyed, and I'm not saying people shouldn't enjoy games that aren't good. I love to spend some time playing Saints Row: The Third, just messing around Steelport, but it would be dishonest for someone to call it good; in that specific case I like their whack vision of gangstas and customization, I'm not in for gameplay quality. When reviewers attach misleading numbers to reviews or do a bad job in general they're bound to lose more experienced readers.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Feb 3, 2016 1:57:53 GMT
spidershinobi - I always feel like it! Such a good game!I think my favourite reviews aren't the ones that say if the game is good or bad, but the ones that focus on saying what you'll find in it, so you can judge your own interest. That's what I like about CGR: Mark shows what fun elements the game might have for you, but at the same time admiting that not everyone will like them - his review of Golden Axe Beast Rider is one of the best examples, as spidershinobi mentioned. This way, you can have a positive review without being misleading: if I buy Beast Rider, I know the game won't have high production values or a lot of variation, but I know that I'll have a few hours of burning people with monsters and cutting them in half. So I know basically what to expect: the review doesn't gloss over the failures, but doesn't mock the game because of them either. Also, that's why I dislike so much reviews with numbers attached, as they ignore all the varied tastes from the audience. This is especially obvious to me everytime an awesome game gets a 7 because "it was too short", when I actually prefer shorter games - to me, being short should be considered a plus. The same goes for repetition (if it's an action game with solid enough combat system, repetition might be a good thing!), bad graphics (I usually don't care enough to judge a game based on them) and other things like those. Numbers are the laziest way of judging a game. Even most terrible is when they apply separate numbers for different aspects and then average the final grade - in these cases, a game with terrible gameplay but good sound might have the same grade as a game with great gameplay but bad sound effects. And that's how we see Party Babyz being considered "objectively" (there's a number!) better by IGN than GodHand.
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Post by manicottimafia on Feb 3, 2016 1:58:28 GMT
I think one problem is that people think anything other than a "8" or higher is bad, but really "6"s and "7"s are still good and even "5"s can be enjoyable. I think EDF is a perfect example of a game I would not give a high rating, but would still really like.
The way I see it ratings are like this:
1=abomination 2=terrible 3= bad 4="Bleh" 5=nothing special 6=decent 7=good 8=great 9=outstanding 10=masterpiece
But people seem to think that a rating like "decent" isn't good enough.
Strider is a game that I really like, but I realize that there is a lot wrong with it, so I would not give it more than a "6" or "7".
Another thing is I would probably give Sonic 2 an "8", but I prefer Strider.
So really ratings are a tricky business, and people should just pay attention to the "recommended to (insert demographic here)" section to decide if they want a game or not. --Not that I'm saying ratings are useless, it's just that people often misunderstand them.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Dec 14, 2022 3:12:20 GMT
I believe some of the adult gaming elements in the video you posted are here, centipede. |
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