MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
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Post by MeleeMonk on Jun 9, 2017 2:30:58 GMT
Many of my favorite game series have become severely casualized in recent years, namely Super Smash Brothers and The Elder Scrolls, and as a result are no longer interesting to me. It sucks major donkey dick. "Streamlining" is, in my opinion, one of the absolute WORST trends in the gaming industry. Simplifying a formula almost always results in the product becoming much worse.
What other examples can you guys think of?
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
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Post by Balder on Jun 9, 2017 4:11:53 GMT
Halo. Halo 4 and 5 made the series so noob-friendly that they actually hurt good players. Anyone can call in power weapons in Halo now. Before you had to be good at the game, know where and when the weapons spawned and actually not die when you got it. The series has been taking a leap into the abyss ever since 343 Industries took over.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 9, 2017 17:06:10 GMT
I like when games go the other direction (from casual to less casual).
For the most part it is not financially sounding, and I understand if they can only experiment for so long before they go back, but I applaud that at least they try.
What it is interesting is that the casuals gain a little bit of hardcore qualities never seen before and they start acting more like hardcore players when this happens.
For example Call Of Duty, which is the emblem of casuals whithin the console market. They went ahead with Infinite Warfare with a theme that only could appeal to a hardcore gamer.
Hardcore gamers usually hate on Call Of Duty, but this time it was casuals for the most part hating on it. They were acting like hardcore. It was hilarious and fascinating.
About simplicity, that is not always the case. Street Fighter V is on the surface a lot simpler than Street Fighter IV, but because it is so basics heavy, the planning and the execution became a lot togher.
Now, even though Street Fighter V was marketed and balanced more casual friendly, it is only the hardcore players that are still on it, going all out in tournaments, and competitions, and even all the non-casual low to mid tier players are getting clean out.
It is not financially sounding to appear only to hardcore players, so this whole Street Fighter V thing won't last very long. I try to enjoy it while it last. In the case of Call Of Duty I imagine the new game is going to be based on a more casual friendly theme, like going back to their roots of some sort, instead of going to space where most casuals felt it was too way out there in terms of the kind of territory their simpler minds can relate to.
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Jun 11, 2017 8:18:02 GMT
I thought of one!
The invincibility leaf in Super Mario 3D World. If you die five times in a row, the game gives you this invincibility power-up so you can keep going. That seems sort of short sighted since the later levels are only going to be harder, but I don't really mind one way or the other.
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
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Post by Balder on Jun 11, 2017 9:09:18 GMT
I thought of one! The invincibility leaf in Super Mario 3D World. If you die five times in a row, the game gives you this invincibility power-up so you can keep going. That seems sort of short sighted since the later levels are only going to be harder, but I don't really mind one way or the other. What the hell happened to platformers... |
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Jun 11, 2017 10:32:14 GMT
To be fair, wasn't Halo itself already a case of "casualized" FPS, so the genre could be more attractive to console players? I mean, compared to the likes of Quake/Doom/Unreal/Half-life, or System Shock 2/Deus Ex, it certainly looks so. And that wasn't a bad thing in itself: those pc games I mentioned would not be completely playable on a controller without some serious concessions, either because a controller is not half as fast as a mouse (so you need aim assist and slower enemies, or a more corridor-based level design), or because a controller just doesn't have as many buttons as a keyboard (I guess System Shock 2 would be a nightmare in a controller).
But to stay on topic, I'll say Ninja Gaiden 3 and DMC. NG3 introduced QTEs, took out all the weapons besides the sword and added a lot of cutscenes, all while being a much easier game than before. Enough to say it did not please the crowd, and luckily Team Ninja tried to fix it in the Razor's Edge rerelease - while not a perfect game, at least RE still feels like Ninja Gaiden. DMC is more of an action-platformer than a spetacle fighter; its combat system feels really shallow. Keep in mind I'm not even that much of a fan of the DmC series, and I could still tell DMC had lost all the complexity from the previous games. I wouldn't call it a bad game, though; but certainly less technical than before.
I will also say Twilight Princess was the very bottom of the Zelda series (not that it was a very hard series in the first place): that game has a 3 hours long or more tutorial, and the game will still keep telling you for hours what is a rupee every time you open a chest. It's seriously condescending.
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leaon79s
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Post by leaon79s on Jun 12, 2017 2:19:51 GMT
But to stay on topic, I'll say Ninja Gaiden 3 and DMC. NG3 introduced QTEs, took out all the weapons besides the sword and added a lot of cutscenes, all while being a much easier game than before. Enough to say it did not please the crowd, and luckily Team Ninja tried to fix it in the Razor's Edge rerelease - while not a perfect game, at least RE still feels like Ninja Gaiden. Actually, Razor's Edge is my go to game when I want to play a melee actioner. Even more than Sigma, or Revengeance... No adventuring around, no stealth nonsense. Just straight up fight till you're the last man standing... over and over again. The purest action game there is imo. Plus, that steel on bone mechanic is sweet. (once you get the hang of executing it at will instead of relying on luck) |
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Jun 12, 2017 4:17:35 GMT
leaon79s - Yep, I may even prefer it over NG2. The combat itself is better, IMO: the steel on bone is awesome indeed, and is finally a way to counter grabs. What holds it back is the level design (even more corridor-like than 2) and the lamest bosses in the series - the f****** dinossaur, man!  But all the huge improvements over NG3 show that Team Ninja learned their lesson, so I'm confident that another game in the series might be great. I wish I could play Nioh. I know it's a very different style (more akin to Dark Souls), but it looks neat.
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Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Jun 12, 2017 7:34:41 GMT
I thought of one! The invincibility leaf in Super Mario 3D World. If you die five times in a row, the game gives you this invincibility power-up so you can keep going. That seems sort of short sighted since the later levels are only going to be harder, but I don't really mind one way or the other. What the hell happened to platformers... The Mario games are still good. You don't have to use the invincibility, even if you die over and over. But overall, I'd agree. They aren't what they used to be. |
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leaon79s
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Post by leaon79s on Jun 12, 2017 14:34:46 GMT
leaon79s - Yep, I may even prefer it over NG2. The combat itself is better, IMO: the steel on bone is awesome indeed, and is finally a way to counter grabs. What holds it back is the level design (even more corridor-like than 2) and the lamest bosses in the series - the f****** dinossaur, man! But all the huge improvements over NG3 show that Team Ninja learned their lesson, so I'm confident that another game in the series might be great. I wish I could play Nioh. I know it's a very different style (more akin to Dark Souls), but it looks neat. Dewd, the dinosaur is awesome!  T'was so scaree...  And that Red Alchemist rival fella - he was pretty kewl... Yeah corridor gameplay sucks. But the awesome cinematography (in cutscenes & finishers) makes up for it!  I doubt we'll be getting another game in the series anytime soon though... Yaiba saw to that... But... I'm quite happy with the modern trilogy as it is. If this is all we will ever get, I'm pretty satisfied. Nioh is supposedly reaally kewl -smoother more cinematic Dark Souls or other- but personally I just can't find the enthusiasm for it. A reason I never got into the Witcher franchise (despite its all its supposed gratuity) was because I can't stand that Geralt character... and Nioh is seemingly just Geralt as a Samurai sans seks & newditee... I suppose I'll play it eventually just cause Team Ninja, but I think for now I'll just stay roaming about in Dark Souls 2&3 for quite a bit longer. If you wanna play souls, nothing beats the originals (maybe except Nier  ). |
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MeleeMonk
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Part-time gamer, full-time environmentalist, and member of PAPO (People Against Palm Oil)
Posts: 3,651
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Post by MeleeMonk on Jun 13, 2017 7:53:35 GMT
To be fair, wasn't Halo itself already a case of "casualized" FPS, so the genre could be more attractive to console players? I mean, compared to the likes of Quake/Doom/Unreal/Half-life, or System Shock 2/Deus Ex, it certainly looks so. And that wasn't a bad thing in itself: those pc games I mentioned would not be completely playable on a controller without some serious concessions, either because a controller is not half as fast as a mouse (so you need aim assist and slower enemies, or a more corridor-based level design), or because a controller just doesn't have as many buttons as a keyboard (I guess System Shock 2 would be a nightmare in a controller). I definitely wouldn't call the Bungie Halo games a "casual series", since they appeal to both spectrums gameplay-wise (hardcrore and casual). Timesplitters, for example, is much, MUCH more simplistic in that regard. Halo (Bungie Halo) actually gives the player a lot of freedom when it comes to movement and offense, and requires strict knowledge of the game's physics when it comes to tossing grenades. Whereas in Timesplitters you aren't even allowed to jump, the aim-assist is downright hand-holding, and really the only challenge comes from memorizing where the healthpacks, armor and weapons are located in the maps. But yeah, console FPS games are generally not on the same level of complexity as PC shooters (ex. Unreal Tournament) when it comes to gameplay. But honestly they're not really supposed to be anyway, since you could never get the same level of precision and speed with a thumbstick than you could with a mouse. |
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
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Post by Balder on Jun 13, 2017 13:43:35 GMT
Halo CE to Reach were not casual. Now they are, but that's a different story.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Jun 13, 2017 20:40:41 GMT
leaon79s - The alchemist is kewl, but did we really need to fight it three times?  Team Ninja was really running out of ideas for bosses on that game.
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leaon79s
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Post by leaon79s on Jun 14, 2017 9:19:55 GMT
Hey, you have to fight Doku 3 times too!
Well ok, 2 in the original & Black... but still...  |
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fsfsxii
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Post by fsfsxii on Jun 14, 2017 11:39:09 GMT
I was just playing NG3RE, leaon79s Cervantes aside from the overtop executions, i feel like its too easy and got boring FAST, all because of how uber Hayabusa is. Hayabusa is basically an unstoppable killing machine this time, huge counter windows, nimble handling and overall Ryu feels VERY op for this game, compared to NG2 where Ryu was kinda OP, but the enemies were no slouch either. Somehow it balanced well in NG2. Speaking of NGS2, have either of you tried the Team Missions? |
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But all the huge improvements over NG3 show that Team Ninja learned their lesson, so I'm confident that another game in the series might be great.
T'was so scaree... 
).
Team Ninja was really running out of ideas for bosses on that game.
