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Post by spidershinobi on Oct 4, 2017 23:59:21 GMT
Look, I don't enjoy being a pessimist, but things aren't looking good. The year of 2017 saw amazing releases such as Nioh, Persona 5 (in the West), and Nier: Automata, but eventually things will have to slow down and we may begin seeing more disappointments brought to focus. Yeah, I know Marvel VS Capcom Infinite is already out.
The problem is that the world may be shifting towards markets that act favorably to easier products, easier to digest movies, easier games to play, even if I haven't seen music affected as much. My biggest fear right now is that because of Nintendo and Sony's newfound and completely undeserved success with their respective consoles, we may see a return of the N64/Ps1 phylosophy of game design that vehemently shuns challenge. Even if you think you never noticed this happening, it 100% did happen, because when Demon's Souls was released people treated it as a hard game, and Dark Souls has been regarded as a hardcore series even though the difficulty is what most older players would call "expected". Now for some pessimistic evidence!gematsu.com/2016/05/nioh-alpha-demo-survey-results-announcedYes, Japan, the difficulty was "Very bad". Gotta love that Team Ninja made that survey/prank. As you can see, even japanese players who downloaded and played the demo for Nioh back then - as in, they knew what it was going to be - thought the difficulty was disagreeable. But more alarmingly, www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-06-17-next-proper-metroid-prime-would-likely-now-be-on-nxThat is a statement from game designer Kensuke Tanabe, currently working on Metroid Prime 4. Note that he is referring to Metroid Prime 2 during that part of the interview. Yeah. Remember Metroid Prime 2? That super hard game? No? I don't either.
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Post by winnersdontusedrugs on Oct 5, 2017 2:07:07 GMT
Jeez man, I thought Nier was a mediocre game at best and I'm not into JRPGs like Persona 5 (and I don't even want to look at MVCI let alone play it) and I still have a more positive outlook than you. Don't get me wrong, It's painfully obvious that games have been getting easier due to the shift in the market. I still think that as the videogame market increases, so does the niche of people who enjoy difficult games, even if they don't grow at the same rate. As long as there is a niche market of people who will buy difficult games there will be developers willing to capitalize on it. You mention Demon's/Dark Souls and I think that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Sure, they aren't the hardest games out there by a long shot, but they're certainly regarded as hard by modern gamers at least. Despite that, it's become a highly successful series because it's reputation as "le hardest game evar XD" attracted a horde of people looking for a challenge. I don't think we've entered a dark age of videogames, but that we've already been in one for over a decade and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. That being said, I think it's looking bleak for fighting games in particular right now so I'll pour a 40 in the genre's memory.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Oct 5, 2017 22:01:33 GMT
I don't know. I guess I just don't have a negative outlook on the future. I guess the best way to keep positive is to play the best of this generation and remember the classics when nothing intrigues you.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Oct 5, 2017 23:40:06 GMT
It's not even close to 1983.
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Oct 6, 2017 7:51:25 GMT
Yeah. Remember Metroid Prime 2? That super hard game? No? I don't either. I remember it! Here you go, spidershinobi. This might jog your memory.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Oct 7, 2017 17:33:36 GMT
We've had so many good releases this year that I can't complain. Also, hard games are being constantly released after the success of From Software / Platinum Games' games: I've recently finished Furi, and man, that game SERIOUSLY kicked my ass. If any of you guys like a good Ninja Gaiden difficulty, this is the game. It was so hard that I even thought about (blasphemy!) lowering the difficulty level, but I resisted and man, was it satisfactory. It's even the good kind of hard game: after you really learn how to beat the bosses, you can consistently do it again without dying and in a very fast time, so you really feel that you got good at the game - especially since it has no "exp/levels/stronger weapons" bullshit; you use the same character/weapons/techniques through the entire game. It's not the character who gets better: it's you. REALLY RECOMMENDED. Also, Cuphead is out there, too. There are people complaining about its difficulty? Of course. But the fact that it's ostensibly a hard game and that it's a successful one tell me that there is a huge public for games that are focused on gameplay and on mastering their mechanics. I don't know how is the difficulty of Samus Returns or how will be Prime 4, but the fanmade AM2R feels like a proper Metroid game (not too hard but no walk in the park either): so, if you can't count on the big companies delivering challenging games, you can always look for indie developers. If anything, I think the "dark ages" in the sense spidershinobi is talking about were in the late 2000s/early 2010s, when japanese games were being dismissed and people were flocking towards western games focused more on story and "cinematic moments" than gameplay: we got easy, completely linear games that tried to be all serious and mature (while the scripts were still largely badly written), when games were being sold as experiences and there was all that asinine "Are games ART?" discussion. It was the time in which Bioshock and Braid were the best things ever made because they were so artistic (they're not bad, but come on, there were better things), in which GTA tried to be all serious with 4, CoD became the main aspiration to every AAA studio, Final Fantasy was completely linear with 13, Ninja Gaiden 3 tried to appeal to a casual audience and games like the first NieR and Bayonetta were huge failures - compare it to nowadays, in which Bayonetta rereleases and a NieR sequel are successful. I think one of the important things was the success of Dark Souls - it showed there was an appreciation for hard games, for non-linearity and exploration, for deep gameplay mechanics and, most importantly, for bigger japanese games. I don't even like Dark Souls all that much, but it came at the right time and was a surprising success after Demon Souls was mostly ignored. So, if anything, I guess we are just OUT of the most recent video game dark ages. That's what I feel when playing Furi. Also, a pc release was announced for Nioh, so I'm very happy about it. I just hope Koei-Tecmo doesn't screw-up the port, as they tend to do for pc releases.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Oct 7, 2017 17:48:13 GMT
I just played the demo version of Super Mario Odyssey. It was pretty fun.
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Post by winnersdontusedrugs on Oct 7, 2017 19:31:12 GMT
If anything, I think the "dark ages" in the sense spidershinobi is talking about were in the late 2000s/early 2010s, when japanese games were being dismissed and people were flocking towards western games focused more on story and "cinematic moments" than gameplay I think what made those days so bad (and I'd even push them back as far as the mid 2000s) was that it wasn't just the western devs making these linear, piss easy games. Hell, you can argue that eastern devs fell into the "focusing more on story/cinematics than gameplay" trap way back in the 90s with the vast majority of JRPGs. I think that's why indie games started gaining so much popularity during the late 2000s and onward, because there was simply no escape from these types of games otherwise. and games like the first NieR and Bayonetta were huge failures - compare it to nowadays, in which Bayonetta rereleases and a NieR sequel are successful I agree with your overall point but I feel the need to mention that the first Nier was a genuinely abysmal game. No mystery why that game didn't sell well.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Oct 7, 2017 21:20:12 GMT
winnersdontusedrugs - I like the first Nier, but I'll admit that I like it more for what it tries to do than for what it actually does. The mid-2000s really might be a good point to start seeing the shift more clearly. I would say that, in 2005, a combination of the 360 release (which popularized western-developed games over japanese ones) and the huge influence of Half-Life 2 on western developers (a good game, but already showing the reliance on linearity and setpieces) defined what kind of games we would see on the following years. I mean, HL2 was released in 2004, but by 2005 we started getting the games "inspired" by it. As you point out, some japanese genres also started getting weaker appeal or getting too bloated by that time, so it opened up more space for western devs. I would say jRPGs, survival-horrors (after RE4 they became mostly action-horror games) and 3d platformers all went through harder times, so we got more publicity for wRPGs, console FPSs and cover-based shooters, which I think were the dominant genres in the last generation.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Oct 7, 2017 21:37:18 GMT
winnersdontusedrugs - I like the first Nier, but I'll admit that I like it more for what it tries to do than for what it actually does. The mid-2000s really might be a good point to start seeing the shift more clearly. I would say that, in 2005, a combination of the 360 release (which popularized western-developed games over japanese ones) and the huge influence of Half-Life 2 on western developers (a good game, but already showing the reliance on linearity and setpieces) defined what kind of games we would see on the following years. I mean, HL2 was released in 2004, but by 2005 we started getting the games "inspired" by it. As you point out, some japanese genres also started getting weaker appeal or getting too bloated by that time, so it opened up more space for western devs. I would say jRPGs, survival-horrors (after RE4 they became mostly action-horror games) and 3d platformers all went through harder times, so we got more publicity for wRPGs, console FPSs and cover-based shooters, which I think were the dominant genres in the last generation. Interesting. You have me thinking now...What if the games feel diluted due to overexposure? Perhaps we need to see developers from southern and central Asia or Africa for new perspectives?
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Oct 8, 2017 0:40:19 GMT
This year made me feel like we are back in the day. The whole year felt absolutely old school awesome, and it is ending with a brand new Gran Turismo and a brand new Super Mario, I doubt we would be able to top this year for years to come.
Of the titles coming later no much excites me, Red Dead 2, The Last Of Us 2, God Of War 4, even Spider-Man, that's basically the movie industry finding a new format. I'm sorry but I like video games, let video games be games and let movies be movies. Not a fan, it is just commercial jargon.
In other words I already have Netflix, don't get me wrong, I definitely don't have anything against those games, I'll probably play them at some point, but that's like announcing a new season of Narcos, it just doesn't excite me at all.
I am looking forward for Ace Combat 7 and Dragon Ball Fighterz, games with actual gameplay on it, I was hoping to try Dragon Quest Heroes I & II if it comes on the Switch and considering I like musuo games I'll definitely jump on Fire Emblem Warriors whenever comes out.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Oct 8, 2017 1:10:22 GMT
Witcher III is perhaps one of the best games ever made. And it is from Poland.
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Oct 8, 2017 16:34:46 GMT
Breath of the Wild is getting a hard mode has a higher difficulty level setting DLC.
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Post by teddykongcountry on Oct 14, 2017 23:20:48 GMT
Yeah. Remember Metroid Prime 2? That super hard game? No? I don't either. I remember it! Here you go, spidershinobi . This might jog your memory. I'm going to credit this post for making me go out and reacquire the Metroid Prime Trilogy on Wii. Thanks Dan! You've always got my best interests in mind.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Oct 15, 2017 1:13:39 GMT
I remember it! Here you go, spidershinobi . This might jog your memory. I'm going to credit this post for making me go out and reacquire the Metroid Prime Trilogy on Wii. Thanks Dan! You've always got my best interests in mind. I'm going to do the same for the Wii U.
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