Bogard
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Post by Bogard on Jun 14, 2020 11:38:41 GMT
So now Nintendo fanboys are claiming that The Wii U was never intended to be a success but was thrown out there just to fill in a gap to give Nintendo time to work on the Switch. Now I think this is completely ridiculous and a typical Nintendo fanboy suck up. But what do you guys think?.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Jun 14, 2020 13:22:22 GMT
All companies make mistakes. Nintendo is no exception.
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Bogard
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Post by Bogard on Jun 14, 2020 14:01:24 GMT
All companies make mistakes. Nintendo is no exception.
Thank you. The Nintendo fanboy logic and blind loyalty never ceases to amaze me. As a Sega, SNK and Capcom fanboy my self I would still admit the realty that Sega of America really fucked up the Saturn, and always question SNK's logic behind the NEO GEO CD with its game breaking load times and design of the Control pad. Sticking up for a company that you love is one thing, but spreading bullshit due to fanboyism is another. These idiots will defend they're companies even if the said company announced that their next console is going to be a cardboard box with a Nintendo logo drawn on it with a pack of playing card thrown in it.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 14, 2020 21:21:34 GMT
even if the said company announced that their next console is going to be a cardboard box with a Nintendo logo drawn on it with a pack of playing card thrown in it. Nintendo VR unit is basically that. The Wii U had excellent titles, but there was too many mistakes with that console. Not only it looked too similar to the Wii, it also had a name too similar to the Wii, so people basically thought it was an add on. On top of that it wasn't unique enough to compete with other consoles. Even if it was more powerful than the PS3, or the 360, it wasn't powerful enough for the next gen around the corner. Power usually doesn't matter as much as long as you can offer something unique enough. The games were unique enough, but the hardware wasn't. Basically the asymetrical gameplay wasn't a seller simply because it is not a feature people would care for. It didn't even work properly, you couldn't even go far enough unless you live in a tiny house. Although to be fair to the guy who said that, once they realized of the mistake, which was after a year of release, they did try to keep it on the low, almost as if they just wanted to get over with it as soon as possible. The proper way to do this is by keeping your loyal costumers happy, but without making enough noise to bring too many new ones until you have a proper response, in this case, the Switch, and that's what they did. They kept advertising to the minimum, they avoided game expos presentations, they kept important IPs from appearing on the console, and they even cut production early. A lot of people wouldn't understand that approach because if you have a product it only makes sense to sell more of that. Yes, that is true, but only when that's your last resource, if you have an ace up your sleeve, you want to be smooth about it. I was honestly impressed because only a company with that much experience can play like that. Any other company would probably spend all their resources in making it work, until they couldn't anymore. At the same time there is no much to applaud because they already had Sega as an example of what not to do, so it would have been very shameful if having that example, they would do the same mistakes. Plus they couldn't afford making those mistakes when their properties have so much cultural value, it just wouldn't make sense financially in the long run because part of the reason they are so valuable is because they can manage them first hand. Letting go of that would indeed have been a major catastrophe, and I doubt anyone would had liked to see that. They definitely did the right thing, and the right thing was a hard thing to do, not many could had pull it off the way they did. However they wouldn't have been in that position if they didn't make those mistakes in the first place. They fucked up big time. In resume: The Wii U was a transitional console, but in a market that was years ahead of their calendar, similar to what the PS4 Pro, and Xbox One X were. The Wii U was appropriate for 2009, not for 2012, but they didn't need it in 2009, and by the time they needed it, it was too late for the console to compete. They simply had to take the hit until they were ready to have something more appropriate with the times.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Jun 15, 2020 1:15:57 GMT
So now Nintendo fanboys are claiming that The Wii U was never intended to be a success but was thrown out there just to fill in a gap to give Nintendo time to work on the Switch. Now I think this is completely ridiculous and a typical Nintendo fanboy suck up. But what do you guys think?. Nintendo fanboys sucking up? I try to stay away from that pre-teen nonsense for my own mental sanity. I don't see this as a general conversation these days, so I'm interested in seeing what set you off. I don't really think this line of thinking is the consensus among Nintendo fans.
As for the Wii U, I love the system. I have mine still hooked up, and it is played with on a weekly basis. Even though I love it, I can admit it was a failure. Factually, it cannot be disputed. However, it was not intended to fail at the start; that's for sure. The first years worth of games were developed to compete with the PS3 and the XBox 360. The user install base never came about, so 3rd party developers strayed away. That started the inevitable fall, since the competition could boast about their library and their inevitable successor systems. To say that the Wii U was a throw away stop gap is ridiculous. The CD-ROM technology for the Wii U is based off of Game Cube disc technology that created thier 1.5 GB a disc. Nintendo R&D spent millions on upgrading it to 25 GB a disc. Couple that R&D with the game pad developments and the tooling and retooling for factories that developed these systems would lead to astronomical amounts of wasted money if it was a "stop gap." The logistics alone for procuring the materials needed to create the systems would be a colossal waste of capital. One would be insane to believe that a stop gap would be created to keep a foot hold in the industry. If that was the true thinking, then Nintendo would have made the Wii U an add on to the Wii until the Switch was finished.
In a way, it was allowed to fail in the last year, since project NX was in the works. The title release for the last year of the system's existence was abysmal at best. Hell, it was depressing. That is the reason why indie developers probably succeeded for that duration, and so many games were upgraded ports to the Switch. (I don't believe Mario Odyssey was initially designed for the Switch.) I would only give credence to this theory if they were focusing on the last year or so of its relatively short life span.
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Bogard
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Post by Bogard on Jun 15, 2020 9:15:19 GMT
So now Nintendo fanboys are claiming that The Wii U was never intended to be a success but was thrown out there just to fill in a gap to give Nintendo time to work on the Switch. Now I think this is completely ridiculous and a typical Nintendo fanboy suck up. But what do you guys think?. Nintendo fanboys sucking up? I try to stay away from that pre-teen nonsense for my own mental sanity. I don't see this as a general conversation these days, so I'm interested in seeing what set you off. I don't really think this line of thinking is the consensus among Nintendo fans.
As for the Wii U, I love the system. I have mine still hooked up, and it is played with on a weekly basis. Even though I love it, I can admit it was a failure. Factually, it cannot be disputed. However, it was not intended to fail at the start; that's for sure. The first years worth of games were developed to compete with the PS3 and the XBox 360. The user install base never came about, so 3rd party developers strayed away. That started the inevitable fall, since the competition could boast about their library and their inevitable successor systems. To say that the Wii U was a throw away stop gap is ridiculous. The CD-ROM technology for the Wii U is based off of Game Cube disc technology that created thier 1.5 GB a disc. Nintendo R&D spent millions on upgrading it to 25 GB a disc. Couple that R&D with the game pad developments and the tooling and retooling for factories that developed these systems would lead to astronomical amounts of wasted money if it was a "stop gap." The logistics alone for procuring the materials needed to create the systems would be a colossal waste of capital. One would be insane to believe that a stop gap would be created to keep a foot hold in the industry. If that was the true thinking, then Nintendo would have made the Wii U an add on to the Wii until the Switch was finished.
In a way, it was allowed to fail in the last year, since project NX was in the works. The title release for the last year of the system's existence was abysmal at best. Hell, it was depressing. That is the reason why indie developers probably succeeded for that duration, and so many games were upgraded ports to the Switch. (I don't believe Mario Odyssey was initially designed for the Switch.) I would only give credence to this theory if they were focusing on the last year or so of its relatively short life span.
Ah man, if these idiots were pre-teens then it wouldn't be a problem. But everything you said makes complete sense and is proof that the Wii U was not fill in console. I mean to suggest Nintendo CEO's taking a pay cut when the console failed and the company was possibly in the worst situation they were ever in was done deliberately is pretty stupid. The thing is I loved the Wii and still do and was really looking forward to the Wii U. Nintendo fanboys still bitch about the Capcom Five that was promised for the gamecube and Derek even made a two part video practically crying about how Capcom betrayed Nintnedo. But for me Nintendo did the same ting with the Wii U. They promised all the third party support and I was really looking forward for a lot of those games such as the Yakuza HD collection and Metal Gear Rising. But Nintendo just started pulling the plug on all the third party games one by one and pretty much decided to go back to the same position they were in the Wii which also one of the reasons even people who were interested took a step back or not pick one up right away. As a huge Nintendo fan my self, Nintendo never gave me a reason to own a Wii U at the time so I decided to wait for more game releases so i was spending my money else where.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 15, 2020 12:52:59 GMT
The masterpiece 3D World is still trapped in that console, just like Wario World in the GameCube. It is a real shame.
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Post by winnersdontusedrugs on Jun 15, 2020 15:30:04 GMT
Of course it was part of their plan, don't you know Nintendo can lose money for 30+ years and still be ok? A guy on the internet told me as much.
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Post by Imperial Khador on Jun 15, 2020 16:57:49 GMT
Going on the initial premise, and stratogustav's comment about how it would have been amazing in 2009, I will say this (and not that I'm supporting this hypothesis). I don't think Nintendo's aim would have been to shoot themselves in the foot for years for several years in terms of console sales, but I could conceivably see them being victims of their own success. A podcast I listen to recently had an aside discussing the continued non-existence of a 'Switch Pro'. Such a thing was announced as not being something for the current fiscal year in an annual shareholders report. They can't really lie to their shareholders, so this isn't something like denying the existence in an interview because you're waiting for an official reveal. The discussion went in to why they hold off on such a thing, with the PS5 and X-Box Series on the horizon, since the gap between the consoles would become larger. The idea presented by one of the panelists was basically that if they introduce such a product to soon while the Switch and Switch Lite are still selling like hotcakes, you risk dividing your audience. The Switch and Switch Lite have the same capabilities, save for the Switch Lite being portable-only. If you introduce a version with substantially better performance, you have to look at whether you're going to be allowed both sets of hardware to play the game with different visual quality, or whether some games would be 'Switch Pro' only. This sort of thing makes me think of the 'New 3DS' line. Judging by the amount of posts still I see on used sites for 3DS Minecraft with something along the lines of "I bought this for my kid, but I guess they have the wrong kind of 3DS and I can't return it", reminds me that this sort of division really does confuse consumers. A quick search shows around only 15 games that ended up being exclusive to the line, though other games made use of some features like the C-stick, etc. So for a Switch Pro, Nintendo has to really consider if they want to consider alienating/confusing their audience with a half-way product. Sounds kind of like the Wii vs Wii U situation, doesn't it? This kind of conversation does make me wonder if the Wii U might have been possible to go to market a year or two earlier, but it was decided to hold off because the Wii had still been selling well. A lot of what we saw with the Wii U launch, made it feel like a half step. It kept the 'Wii' branding, worked with Wii games, controllers and peripherals, and basically looked like a more rounded. I remember so many people, even those with general console familiarity thinking that the 'Wii U' was the Gamepad itself, and just an accessory allowed users to play a few extra games. So yeah, I think it would strain credulity to say that the Wii U was an 'planned to fail', but a situation as I described above does seem a little more plausible to me. (Dammit, I still love my Wii U )
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 15, 2020 20:50:35 GMT
(Dammit, I still love my Wii U ) Nice expansion on the whole thing. The reason why I said it was for 2009, but they didn't need it then is because exactly that. In fact, I do believe the console was scheduled around that year, and all of that is just my personal theory, I would doubt you can find this information anywhere else because I made it up, I'm surprised you heard a podcast about it, I guess some people can come to the same conclusions. The only reason why that theory is my guess is because that was the time when people were switching massively from CRTs to HDTVs. The PS3 came with the ability to be used with both options, a CRT, and a HDTV, but the Wii was CRT exclusive unless you bought a third party adapter. Around that time, channels started switching from analog signal to all digital. In United States the government even issued free digital converter boxes in some places, so people can receive the new signal, and cable companies had to invest a lot of money in that technology. This was a change that had to happen fast going from CRT to HDTV. They already wanted to lay down the ground for the smart TVs, and CRTs were simply not going to cut it for that. The Wii was not a HD device, and Nintendo was the only one in need of an upgrade, but they didn't jump in it because of the success they had, they didn't feel they need it, so they procrastinated, and that's what end up bitting them in the ass. The Wii U is probably the most complete console ever made. All my Wii digital library is there too. Think about that, you have Commodore 64, Neo Geo, Sega Genesis, Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Arcade, Master System, Wii, GameBoy Advance, and Wii U titles, all in the same console, that is capable of two simultaneous screens gameplay, motion controls, and traditional playing with a decent power, and 1080p graphics, even the Switch doesn't do 1080p all the time. Definitely a very special console indeed.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Jun 17, 2020 22:03:10 GMT
What was weird this generation is that pretty much everyone shat on Nintendo for not knowing what to do with the Wii U. Many of it's third party exclusives just ended up being timed exclusives due to the poor sales. I'm not saying that it was a terrible console, but Nintendo sure made some awful and questionable choices, but then out of the blue the Switch becomes a massive success and the public just forgets about the Wii U's existence. Almost like it was erased from history.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 17, 2020 22:22:37 GMT
What was weird this generation is that pretty much everyone shat on Nintendo for not knowing what to do with the Wii U. Many of it's third party exclusives just ended up being timed exclusives due to the poor sales. I'm not saying that it was a terrible console, but Nintendo sure made some awful and questionable choices, but then out of the blue the Switch becomes a massive success and the public just forgets about the Wii U's existence. Almost like it was erased from history. Yeah, the Switch even outsold the Xbox One before the first two years passed, and the Xbox One has been in the market since 2013. This whole lost of memory thing happened with the Sega CD, and the Sega 32X too, but us fans haven't forgotten, we will always honor their memory.
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Bogard
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Post by Bogard on Jun 17, 2020 23:48:32 GMT
What was weird this generation is that pretty much everyone shat on Nintendo for not knowing what to do with the Wii U. Many of it's third party exclusives just ended up being timed exclusives due to the poor sales. I'm not saying that it was a terrible console, but Nintendo sure made some awful and questionable choices, but then out of the blue the Switch becomes a massive success and the public just forgets about the Wii U's existence. Almost like it was erased from history. yeah the choices Nintendo made with the Wii U was a bit of a piss take to the customers and fans. I think they got over confident with the Wii and thought they couldn't do anything wrong. Review Tech USA made a good point on how a lot of people who bought the Wii did so because of curiosity or Wii Sports and nothing else which makes a lot of sense because most non Nintendo gamers who bought the console don't seem to be aware of the Wii's game Library out side of Mario Galaxy, Smash Brawl, Mario Kart Wii and Wii Sports. They bought the console and played Wii sports a few times with friends and then it just sat there collecting dust. But Nintendo saw the sales as "Well we must be hitting all the right notes with our hardware that can't play triple A titles that the other consoles have and our unique motion controls", So they bought over that logic to the Wii U as well. I for one was disappointed that Nintendo pulled third party games away from the Wii U when they hyped the third party support soo much.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 18, 2020 0:29:57 GMT
Yeah, Wii games were selling insane. All in the millions, Mario Party 8, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Mario Kart Wii, Super Mario Galaxy, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Sports Plus, Wii Party, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, no wonder they hold on to release the Wii U.
All of those were monster games in terms of sales. I don't think any console has ever seen so many games hitting 10s of millions in sales, even games like Wii Fit, and Wii Fit Plus sold like crazy.
I remember playing the Wii at almost every house party at the time. Lots of people got laid because of the Wii. It was one of the best excuses to bring girls home after the club. Those were ridiculous party times.
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Bogard
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Post by Bogard on Jun 18, 2020 0:37:35 GMT
It was one of the best excuses to bring girls home after the club. Those were ridiculous party times. LOL. luring girls with games never worked for me. I remember telling a girl that I read Comics and she gave me that look of "Oh no, You're not one of those are you?."
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