Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,827
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Post by Balder on Sept 10, 2016 9:45:55 GMT
It's kind of sad that it won't be able to play 4K movies. Like c'mon, Sony is the one who owns that format. Even their biggest competitor has it, and they have it on their Slim model and the Scorpio.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Sept 10, 2016 11:20:45 GMT
It's kind of sad that it won't be able to play 4K movies. Like c'mon, Sony is the one who owns that format. Even their biggest competitor has it, and they have it on their Slim model and the Scorpio. There is a rumor going around that they didn't include UHD Bluray playback because that might cause competition between the PS4Pro and the UHD Bluray player they're releasing soon.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Sept 10, 2016 13:35:10 GMT
The Blu-Player thing is obvious. It is also obvious they went ahead with this fiasco to make gamers feel they need a 4K TV to push them to buy one this November.
So my guess is they are counting more on selling TVs than the actual console.
That's another reason why they are giving away HDR to all consoles, not just the Pro, so people look for HDR TVs this Holiday.
They did the same thing with the Sony smart phones. They removed the gyroscope from all Sony smart phones so people don't use their phones for Google Cardboard because they wanted people to look forward for their Project Morpheus.
There is not a single AAA game that can run natively on 4K with those specs, not even with the Scorpio specs.
Games will just get upscaled, which is something 4K TVs already do.
The Netflix and YouTube 4K apps are built in in the majority of 4K TVs which are smart, along with many other 4K apps, no one needs a PlayStation for that.
Streaming 4K does not have the same graphical fidelity as 4K from physical media, so the Pro not having a 4K Blu-Ray is a big deal.
What's funny is that the real game changer for TVs is not 4K or HDR, as much as they improve the field, the real game changer is OLED, and the funny thing is that Sony doesn't even sell OLED TVs, which is why they are trying to push for HDR instead.
I don't regret buying my HDR 4K 3D TV because it is nice indeed, but if I had to buy again, I would get something OLED, even PS2 games look good on those.
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Post by manicottimafia on Sept 10, 2016 15:52:14 GMT
It's kind of sad that it won't be able to play 4K movies. Like c'mon, Sony is the one who owns that format. Even their biggest competitor has it, and they have it on their Slim model and the Scorpio. There is a rumor going around that they didn't include UHD Bluray playback because that might cause competition between the PS4Pro and the UHD Bluray player they're releasing soon. Normally I would believe that but they already put out two consoles at the same time to compete with each other lol
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Sept 10, 2016 21:29:05 GMT
There is a rumor going around that they didn't include UHD Bluray playback because that might cause competition between the PS4Pro and the UHD Bluray player they're releasing soon. Normally I would believe that but they already put out two consoles at the same time to compete with each other lol Not to mention the already existing standard PS4. Still a rumor, though.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Sept 10, 2016 21:32:17 GMT
The Blu-Player thing is obvious. It is also obvious they went ahead with this fiasco to make gamers feel they need a 4K TV to push them to buy one this November. So my guess is they are counting more on selling TVs than the actual console. That's another reason why they are giving away HDR to all consoles, not just the Pro, so people look for HDR TVs this Holiday. They did the same thing with the Sony smart phones. They removed the gyroscope from all Sony smart phones so people don't use their phones for Google Cardboard because they wanted people to look forward for their Project Morpheus. There is not a single AAA game that can run natively on 4K with those specs, not even with the Scorpio specs. Games will just get upscaled, which is something 4K TVs already do. The Netflix and YouTube 4K apps are built in in the majority of 4K TVs which are smart, along with many other 4K apps, no one needs a PlayStation for that. Streaming 4K does not have the same graphical fidelity as 4K from physical media, so the Pro not having a 4K Blu-Ray is a big deal. What's funny is that the real game changer for TVs is not 4K or HDR, as much as they improve the field, the real game changer is OLED, and the funny thing is that Sony doesn't even sell OLED TVs, which is why they are trying to push for HDR instead. I don't regret buying my HDR 4K 3D TV because it is nice indeed, but if I had to buy again, I would get something OLED, even PS2 games look good on those. Rise of the Tomb Raider, mass effect and the last of us already support native 4k. Those are the ones that come to my mind. I don't really care for 4k, but i think Sony is preparing the devs and people for the 9th generation which is going to have 4k as a standard definition.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Sept 10, 2016 22:17:03 GMT
. I don't really care for 4k, but i think Sony is preparing the devs and people for the 9th generation which is going to have 4k as a standard definition. Besides Mass Effect those games are done, so any 4K they deliver will have to be upscaled unless they were made on a 4K engine in the first place, but I really doubt that. It is basically like converting a 720p video to 1080p, the video remains 720p except that the area of the window has increased. The most they can do is either brush it or clone some texture to try to cover the upscaling and smoothing it out. Which is still an improvement because that's pretty much mastering the game again, but as a 4K owner I can tell you that even on a 65 inch TV I can't see any difference between the base model games and the 4K trailers they have shown. You will either have to have some crazy eagle vision to notice it or your screen will have to be larger than something like 120", which means at that point you are using a projector since they don't make TVs that big, and native 4K projectors are more expensive than OLED which is why mine is still just a 1080p. Not only that, Cervantes brings a valid point that in order to compensate for the upscaling the frame rate will have to remain low. It is a shame because using the extra power could had stabilize at least the 30 FPS for a 1080p game, but now it will struggle just at that, not to even mentioning 60 FPS as the guy from The Witness said, and that's just a basic game. This is why he is only aiming to 1440p. Games right now are really 720p-900p at the most, upscaled to 1080p. We could have a true native 1080p AAA game with this, but with the 4K marketing, who knows now.
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Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Sept 10, 2016 22:25:39 GMT
This all sounds so much like the 32X to me.
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lukefonfabre388
Sonic Wing
Move like a shadow, sting like a nuke.
Posts: 467
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Post by lukefonfabre388 on Sept 10, 2016 22:46:38 GMT
. I don't really care for 4k, but i think Sony is preparing the devs and people for the 9th generation which is going to have 4k as a standard definition. Besides Mass Effect those games are done, so any 4K they deliver will have to be upscaled unless they were made on a 4K engine in the first place, but I really doubt that. It is basically like converting a 720p video to 1080p, the video remains 720p except that the area of the window has increased. The most they can do is either brush it or clone some texture to try to cover the upscaling and smoothing it out. Which is still an improvement because that's pretty much mastering the game again, but as a 4K owner I can tell you that even on a 65 inch TV I can't see any difference between the base model games and the 4K trailers they have shown. You will either have to have some crazy eagle vision to notice it or your screen will have to be larger than something like 120", which means at that point you are using a projector since they don't make TVs that big, and native 4K projectors are more expensive than OLED which is why mine is still just a 1080p. Not only that, Cervantes brings a valid point that in order to compensate for the upscaling the frame rate will have to remain low. It is a shame because using the extra power could had stabilize at least the 30 FPS for a 1080p game, but now it will struggle just at that, not to even mentioning 60 FPS as the guy from The Witness said, and that's just a basic game. This is why he is only aiming to 1440p. Games right now are really 720p-900p at the most, upscaled to 1080p. We could have a true native 1080p AAA game with this, but with the 4K marketing, who knows now. There is only one graphics card that I know of that can do 4k at 60fps. It's called the titan and it costs $1200 and its only for pc.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Sept 10, 2016 22:50:22 GMT
There is only one graphics card that I know of that can do 4k at 60fps. It's called the titan and it costs $1200 and its only for pc. Yeah, that stuff is not cheap.
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,571
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Post by scipioafricanus on Sept 11, 2016 1:41:15 GMT
Can you really tell the difference between 4k and 1080p?
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Sept 11, 2016 2:47:25 GMT
Not really, only a bit with native stuff. Upscaled stuff looks the same after 5 minutes. I tried HDR settings with the Horizon demo and it doesn't look anything better than let's say how Street Fighter V looks upscaled from the base standard PS4. The jump in resolution is too insignificant to be important. The real differences are in other graphic aspects like contrast, color space, and brightness. This is why I feel OLED is the real game changer because even PS2 games look good on those. 4K not so much.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Sept 11, 2016 12:06:22 GMT
. I don't really care for 4k, but i think Sony is preparing the devs and people for the 9th generation which is going to have 4k as a standard definition. Besides Mass Effect those games are done, so any 4K they deliver will have to be upscaled unless they were made on a 4K engine in the first place, but I really doubt that. It is basically like converting a 720p video to 1080p, the video remains 720p except that the area of the window has increased. The most they can do is either brush it or clone some texture to try to cover the upscaling and smoothing it out. Which is still an improvement because that's pretty much mastering the game again, but as a 4K owner I can tell you that even on a 65 inch TV I can't see any difference between the base model games and the 4K trailers they have shown. You will either have to have some crazy eagle vision to notice it or your screen will have to be larger than something like 120", which means at that point you are using a projector since they don't make TVs that big, and native 4K projectors are more expensive than OLED which is why mine is still just a 1080p. Not only that, Cervantes brings a valid point that in order to compensate for the upscaling the frame rate will have to remain low. It is a shame because using the extra power could had stabilize at least the 30 FPS for a 1080p game, but now it will struggle just at that, not to even mentioning 60 FPS as the guy from The Witness said, and that's just a basic game. This is why he is only aiming to 1440p. Games right now are really 720p-900p at the most, upscaled to 1080p. We could have a true native 1080p AAA game with this, but with the 4K marketing, who knows now. But these games are confirmed to be native 4k, i don't think they would lie straight up, plus i don't think 4k works like that with engines. The Ps4 Pro GPU is said to be the equivalent of a GTX 970
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
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Post by stratogustav on Sept 11, 2016 14:34:12 GMT
But these games are confirmed to be native 4k, i don't think they would lie straight up, plus i don't think 4k works like that with engines. The Ps4 Pro GPU is said to be the equivalent of a GTX 970 No one in Sony has said the word native that I remember or maybe I didn't hear right. The GTX 970 and the PS4 Pro, do not have the power to render native 4K, only upscaled. Guerrilla Games confirmed that it isn’t rendering Horizon at the 3,840 x 2160 resolution that is standard for 4K. To deliver that amount of pixels you need a lot of power. Even the GTX 1080 with 9 Teraflops struggles with 4K, and barely scrapes by. PS4 Pro is only 4.2 Teraflops, not even half. The only games I can see maybe reaching that resolution with that power may be The Last Of Us and Rise Of The Tomb Raider if they base themselves on the PS3 and 360 versions, and like at 30 FPS max. They will probably have to lock that thing or the games are going to crash. The question is what's the point to render 7th gen games at 4K, unless you compromise on the frame rate they are going to look like crap, all colored and with cloned textures. Maybe next gen we'll get 60 FPS and native 4K games, right now we are far from that. It has been proven that pro players can notice 144 FPS and maybe even more, so 60 FPS is not even that much either, at least for those that play at those levels.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Sept 11, 2016 15:51:41 GMT
But these games are confirmed to be native 4k, i don't think they would lie straight up, plus i don't think 4k works like that with engines. The Ps4 Pro GPU is said to be the equivalent of a GTX 970 No one in Sony has said the word native that I remember or maybe I didn't hear right. The GTX 970 and the PS4 Pro, do not have the power to render native 4K, only upscaled. Guerrilla Games confirmed that it isn’t rendering Horizon at the 3,840 x 2160 resolution that is standard for 4K. To deliver that amount of pixels you need a lot of power. Even the GTX 1080 with 9 Teraflops struggles with 4K, and barely scrapes by. PS4 Pro is only 4.2 Teraflops, not even half. The only games I can see maybe reaching that resolution with that power may be The Last Of Us and Rise Of The Tomb Raider if they base themselves on the PS3 and 360 versions, and like at 30 FPS max. They will probably have to lock that thing or the games are going to crash. The question is what's the point to render 7th gen games at 4K, unless you compromise on the frame rate they are going to look like crap, all colored and with cloned textures. Maybe next gen we'll get 60 FPS and native 4K games, right now we are far from that. It has been proven that pro players can notice 144 FPS and maybe even more, so 60 FPS is not even that much either, at least for those that play at those levels. Seems 4k requires a powerhouse of components. yeah, guerilla games mentioned that too. My point stands though, Sony is preparing people for a 4k standard next generation. Seems that the Pro will only benefit 1080p users. Isn't the 970 quite strong? I don't follow tech news all that much. Actually, why are people comparing the PS4's gpu to nvidia? isn't it based on AMD tech?
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