Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,863
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Post by Cervantes on Sept 11, 2016 18:55:28 GMT
fsfsxii - I have a 970 - it's actually a medium-range card (the great ones are the ones that end in 80, like the 980 or the 1080). It sure as hell isn't capable of running a modern game with very complex graphics in 4k. I don't have anyway to test it (as I lack a 4k screen), but I'm pretty sure it's not possible on a card like this. But then, it's relative. If the game allow you to lower the graphics settings enough and you don't mind a low framerate, then yes, the 970 is capable of running a 4k game natively. But by then, it will look and play much worse than a 1080p game on maximum settings, so it's just preferable to keep it at 1080p and just upscale. Also, you should take into account that using a higher resolution will only be a really great improvement if the textures are also rendered in high detail. If I take a game that has textures designed for a 720p resolution, then they will still look the same in 4k - the only improvement will be more detail for distant objects and less aliasing, but the game won't look so much better. A game running "natively" in 4k should also have textures designed to be seen natively in 4k, and I'm sure no consumer-level GPU would have enough memory to render that. Here's an article that details some of the techniques going into making the games look better without actually achieving 4k resolution. Of course, there's a lot of marketing-speak going on, so most of these "really advanced techniques" mentioned in the article are the new "blast processing" - they are mostly saying they'll use a higher contrast (thanks to HDR) and better antialiasing.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Sept 11, 2016 19:01:19 GMT
fsfsxii - I have a 970 - it's actually a medium-range card (the great ones are the ones that end in 80, like the 980 or the 1080). It sure as hell isn't capable of running a modern game with very complex graphics in 4k. I don't have anyway to test it (as I lack a 4k screen), but I'm pretty sure it's not possible on a card like this. But then, it's relative. If the game allow you to lower the graphics settings enough and you don't mind a low framerate, then yes, the 970 is capable of running a 4k game natively. But by then, it will look and play much worse than a 1080p game on maximum settings, so it's just preferable to keep it at 1080p and just upscale. Also, you should take into account that using a higher resolution will only be a really great improvement if the textures are also rendered in high detail. If I take a game that has textures designed for a 720p resolution, then they will still look the same in 4k - the only improvement will be more detail for distant objects and less aliasing, but the game won't look so much better. A game running "natively" in 4k should also have textures designed to be seen natively in 4k, and I'm sure no consumer-level GPU would have enough memory to render that. Here's an article that details some of the techniques going into making the games look better without actually achieving 4k resolution. Of course, there's a lot of marketing-speak going on, so most of these "really advanced techniques" mentioned in the article are the new "blast processing" - they are mostly saying they'll use a higher contrast (thanks to HDR) and better antialiasing. Thanks for the info, but console devs can churn out unimaginable power out of relatively weak hardware. Remember how GT4 could output 1080i on the PS2? It seems that the Pro itself is focused on 1080p users instead of the still low numbers of 4k users.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
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Post by stratogustav on Sept 11, 2016 22:06:04 GMT
There is a rumor going around that they didn't include UHD Bluray playback because that might cause competition between the PS4Pro and the UHD Bluray player they're releasing soon. Normally I would believe that but they already put out two consoles at the same time to compete with each other lol I didn't think of that. That's definitely a good point, LOL!
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Post by spidershinobi on Sept 12, 2016 18:37:01 GMT
There is a rumor going around that they didn't include UHD Bluray playback because that might cause competition between the PS4Pro and the UHD Bluray player they're releasing soon. Normally I would believe that but they already put out two consoles at the same time to compete with each other lol Plus, I doubt they would let their "mundane" device division, MDD for short, get priority over their videogame one. And just to rub salt over the wound: gematsu.com/2016/09/sony-wont-allow-mods-fallout-4-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-ps4I don't know about Fallout 4, but we are in 2016, if you purchase Skyrim knowing you won't get to use mods, you are an idiot. That's not even in an offensive sense.
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
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Post by stratogustav on Sept 13, 2016 1:17:35 GMT
Thanks for the info, but console devs can churn out unimaginable power out of relatively weak hardware. Remember how GT4 could output 1080i on the PS2? I If anything you may still get 4K cutsenes on big budget games. I'm sure that shouldn't be difficult and may be worth something.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Sept 13, 2016 2:03:32 GMT
Thanks for the info, but console devs can churn out unimaginable power out of relatively weak hardware. Remember how GT4 could output 1080i on the PS2? I If anything you may still get 4K cutsenes on big budget games. I'm sure that shouldn't be difficult and may be worth something. I wanted to ask you something. So basically there is no game on the market now that is built for 4k? as in engine and textures designed to be in 4k?
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stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
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Post by stratogustav on Sept 13, 2016 8:28:51 GMT
I wanted to ask you something. So basically there is no game on the market now that is built for 4k? as in engine and textures designed to be in 4k? The engine has no much to do as anything can definitely be translated. Similar to the translation of Metal Slug 3 to 1080p. Even on 1080p you can still tell the game was not built for 1080p yet it is 1080p, and it looks cool on 1080p, as opposed of how 448p looks on modern TVs which was its original resolution. It was not possible for the Wii to deliver that, but the PS3 and the PS4 definitely can. The real issue are the frame rates. I would say games like Diablo 3 are easily translated for 4K without compromising the frame rate, and that's a 2012 game. So in other words with the right amount of power anything can get that resolution and a good frame rate too. But without the power you need to compromise in something, whether is the frame rate or the textures, basically the amount of things the GPU has to compute on screen at the same time.
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leaon79s
Ace Bomber
Dishonorable Miscreant
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Post by leaon79s on Sept 13, 2016 9:02:43 GMT
i.e. No, there's no native 4K gheyme yet. Just upscaling... But if it were utilised to it's full potential, we could possibly get 'true' true to life photorealism... (?) (always wanted to use that smiley...)
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
Posts: 916
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Post by fsfsxii on Sept 14, 2016 0:54:19 GMT
i.e. No, there's no native 4K gheyme yet. Just upscaling... But if it were utilised to it's full potential, we could possibly get 'true' true to life photorealism... (?) (always wanted to use that smiley...) I want this game to be in 4k to experience this:
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,863
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Post by Cervantes on Sept 14, 2016 1:34:33 GMT
This image always cracks me up.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Oct 8, 2016 19:59:00 GMT
I wanted to ask you something. So basically there is no game on the market now that is built for 4k? as in engine and textures designed to be in 4k? OK, so after looking on the Internet the different results people were having with their HDR TVs I felt compeled to do some research on how to calibrate mine. I did find out that my TV was simply not calibrated. However while calibrating it, I really went and try to see if there was a difference just with the demo alone, and after meticulously putting attention I now see it, it is there and I can't take it back. It is one of those things that once you actually see it, it stays with you. So yes, there is a clear difference between the standard PS4 and the PS4 Pro and it is very noticeable with or without HDR. Here is the Horizon PS4 Pro demo without HDR: Here is the Horizon PS4 Pro demo with default HDR: Here is the Horizon PS4 Pro demo with HDR calibrated: Here is how a PS4 game looks on the standard PS4 model: Or this: As you you can see, even with a cellphone camera the difference is obvious. So I take back everything I said about the Pro worthiness, the standard PS4 image really does look inferior next to the PS4 Pro image, and that's just from a YouTube demo, I'm sure a direct signal would make an even bigger difference. You also have to consider that as of right now only a extremely limited handful of games are going to take advantage of the new power. So if you want the Pro make sure you want to play those very specific games. However in the future I'm sure many new games will get support. The ones I can remember are: - Battlefield 1 - Call Of Duty Infinite Warfare - Days Gone - Deus Ex Mankind Divided - Dishonored 2 - FIFA 17 - Fallout 4 - Final Fantasy XV - For Honor - Ghost Recon Wild Lands - God Of War - Horizon Zero Dawn - Infamous First Light - The Last Of Us - Mass Effect Andromeda - Middle-Earth Shadow Of Mordor - PES 2017 - Rise Of The Tomb Raider - Spider-Man - Titanfall 2 - Uncharted 4 A Thief's End - Watch Dogs 2 - The Witness If you ask me the game I would like to see getting the upgrade is Bloodborne, the game is already an eye candy as it is. Now, obviously the amount of power is not enough to deliver native 4K and we can't deny that. It is not even close. However the difference is very clear. After calibrating my TV and really taking a look while comparing it directly to a standard game, the difference is very real. What happens is that for those that don't see the difference yet, it is likely they are experiencing what was happening to me, in your mind you think there is no difference because that's how you remember the games looking on the standard PS4, but if you actually do the test the difference is definitely there. I would say on my 4K TV the difference is even more pronounced than the difference between the The Phantom Pain on the PS3 and the Phantom Pain on the standard PS4. It looks like that kind of generation jump. So for those looking forward to take advantage of the Pro, congratulations because I'm impressed, and that's a hard thing to accomplish. Sadly I'm not impressed by the games getting supported, so this is still not for me. It would really mean getting it just for PES and PES looks fine already. My guess is that if I eventually get it, it would have to be for VR, but even that is a stretch.
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scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
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Post by scipioafricanus on Oct 8, 2016 22:22:45 GMT
You have better eyes than mine. I can't see a difference.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Oct 9, 2016 2:43:05 GMT
You have better eyes than mine. I can't see a difference. OK, using a better camera that can pickup subtleties cellphone cameras do not. As if you were upclose your TV. Both images taken with the exact same picture settings. If you are using a cellphone to look this post, then obviously you'll need to zoom-in, but even on a laptop size screen I'm sure the differences are already visible even without zoom. SD PS4: SD PS4 different game: PS4 Pro demo: Notice the squares are gone, and this is just YouTube on 4K. I'm sure a direct signal from the Pro will be even more pronounced. Regardless of the graphics of the game, the resolution differences are clear using the same TV set with the same image adjustments. Personally, what stops me from getting the Pro is that I don't care for the current games announced to get support, but the generation jump is definitely there, specially after considering the difference between multigen games like The Phantom Pain is not as pronounced as the clear pixel difference here.
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