stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Mar 19, 2017 4:15:24 GMT
These are the ones I remember in no particular order:
- Space Invaders
- Super Mario Bros.
- The Legend Of Zelda
- Street Fighter II
- Super Mario 64
- Ocarina Of Time
- Double Dragon
- Metroid
- Space Harrier
- Virtua Fighter
- Metal Gear Solid
- Resident Evil
- Shenmue
- Dance Dance Revolution
- Gran Turismo
- Doom
- Diablo
- Command & Conquer
- Tetris
- SimCity
- Minecraft
You have to realize that being the first is not always the most important aspect. For example Street Fighter II is far from being the first fighting game, but the industry was never the same after that game was dropped.
Wolfenstein came before Doom, and it wasn't until Quake that we really had something new, but Doom was the one that made everything happen for the genre. Without Doom there would not be a Halo or a Modern Warfare, nor Destiny and not even GoldenEye.
Although GoldenEye was very influential in its own way for the multiplayer aspects of that game, so maybe it should be there as well. At least in the console field.
This is why it is hard to debate between Shenmue and Grand Theft Auto III. I would give it to Grand Theft Auto III despite that Shenmue and Crazy Taxi inspired it, the problem there is that both Shenmue and Crazy Taxi were popular enough to dismiss them.
The new open world characteristics introduced by Yu Suzuki in Shenmue had been very relevant in the West in particular, Grand Theft Auto, Sleeping Dogs, Watchdogs, Mafia, Red Dead Redemption, Saints Row, etc., had been possible thanks to that game.
The same goes with Tekken and Virtua Fighter. Tekken end up becoming a household name, but Virtua Fighter was popular enough, so I would still say Virtua Fighter was the one actually revolutionary.
This situation also happened with The Legend Of Zelda on the NES. It was one of the first open world games ever made, but it was clearly influenced by Hydlide that came first, however Hydlide never had the impact that The Legend Of Zelda inspired overall.
We wouldn't have The Witcher, Horizon, or Elder Scrolls without Ocarina Of Time, and we wouldn't have Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, or Forza without Gran Turismo.
Resident Evil has been inspiring in different occasions, with the classic games we end up having ideas for Silent Hill, Siren, Eternal Darkness, and Fatal Frame to come into existence, but with games like Resident Evil 4 we end up getting games like The Evil Within and The Last Of Us.
Diablo inspired games like World Of Warcraft, League Of Legends, and Dota. Diablo is definitely up there as one of the most influential of all time.
I didn't mention Breath Of The Wild because so far that's the only game that implements those new ideas, so until we see other open world franchises catching up I don't think we can say the game is influential, at least not yet.
Dance Dance Revolution reminds me of Street Fighter II in the sense that it had the same impact to Rhythm games that Street Fighter II had to Fighters.
I give it to Command & Conquer despite that Herzog Zwei came first. Herzog Zwei is awesome though.
Pong definitely has to be there as well. Space Invaders was the one that started the overall arcade culture, but Pong made the whole first gen happen.
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Mar 19, 2017 16:14:02 GMT
Wii Sports.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Mar 19, 2017 17:10:21 GMT
Here comes stratogustav again with his thread killing list. Eh... Halo series, that's my entry.
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Post by winnersdontusedrugs on Mar 19, 2017 21:38:28 GMT
Some of the assumptions you're making in terms of what game inspired some other games seems off, although they're mostly understandable. This is the reason why I personally try to avoid arguing what games are influential, since it argues something objectively yet most of the time it relies on assumptions and not facts. For example, I have no idea how games like Witcher, Horizion, or Elder Scrolls (of all things) owe their existence to OoT when they take much more inspiration from other games like Elder Scrolls Arena. In fact, I don't see much inspiration from OoT at all in those games that couldn't have been from just about any other RPG or adventure game other than OoT, but those are just my assumptions.
I agree with you in thinking SF2 totally changed the fighting game industry. Still, good fighting games were few and far-between since SF2 until Weaponlord came out, you can just as easily argue that Weaponlord had as much influence as SF2 since we started getting a constant flow of good fighting games in the 90s since Weaponlord. It sure had alot of new concepts that would be seen in fighting games to come. To top it off, some of the few good pre-Weaponlord fighting games were mostly free from SF2 influence. Virtua Fighter 2 was nothing like SF2. The Fatal Fury series not only plays different but actually predates SF2, and KoF '94 took much more influence from Fatal Fury than it ever did from SF2 (again, my assumptions).
I'm not trying to break your balls or anything, and I do think it's an interesting topic. It's just that I see this kind of discussion alot all over the internet and since this is the only place where I bother to talk about videogames in any kind of detail I thought I'd get my opinions off my chest. Hell, my only real problem with it despite all this ranting is that people always try to argue these things from an objective point of view, even though they usually have very little insight or evidence as to what goes in during the development of these games.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Mar 19, 2017 21:45:40 GMT
I wanted to throw in Pong, but you beat me to it.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Mar 19, 2017 22:02:04 GMT
I agree with you in thinking SF2 totally changed the fighting game industry. Still, good fighting games were few and far-between since SF2 until Weaponlord came out, you can just as easily argue that Weaponlord had as much influence as SF2. I see what you are saying. I personally never heard of Weaponlord and I'm sure most people haven't because if you look at my collection of games and all the games and systems I have played through out the years, it is had for me to say I'm not a hardcore. I know most of you guys are more hardcore than me and have knowledge about more games I never even heard of either. I wish I had that level of knowledge. But for someone like me that loves so much the FGC that grew up loving Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct even more than Street Fighter, you would think that at least I should be familiar with the name, or that I would deny the influence Street Fighter II had in the market. Every one knows I love Fatal Fury, I own that game multiple times, I'm aware it predates Street Fighter II, and no one more than me would have liked that KOF '94 was the one in question, but I can't deny Street Fighter II was the first game with the polish necessary to make actual changes on the industry. I love Pac-Man for example. I even platinum the game, it was my first platinum, I think it is one of the most important games in history and clearly I prefer it a lot more than Space Invaders, but just because I have more love for Pac-Man than for Space Invaders I won't deny Space Invaders was the one that actually moved the industry. That alone tells you where I'm coming from when I mention or not mention a game. The best example I mentioned of this on the original post was Hydlide, it is obvious obvious that's the game that made The Legend Of Zelda happen, yet no one really knew about Hydlide and that's why it didn't take the spot or presence that The Legend Of Zelda had on the industry's future. In respect to Ocarina Of Time, that game is from 1998 yes, and there may had been attempts to provide that experience before, but never in the relevant way in which Ocarina Of Time set the new standard for how games can tell a story, how adventures can unfold, and this was very different than the kind of revolution Super Mario 64 started. Games like The Witcher 3 and Skyrim were born out of the revolutionary aspects of game design brought by Ocarina Of Time to the 3D space. There are some that are not as obvious to connect. Sure it is easy to connect Streets Of Rage to Double Dragon, but when we enter Dynasty Warriors and Warriors Orochi territory the connection is not as clear, but that doesn't mean they are not directly related because the elements of the genre clearly demonstrate it. Again, I own Renegade on my PS4, I know it predates Double Dragon, but I can't deny Double Dragon was the one with the polish necessary to make everything happen for that genre. The reason why this argument is important is because we can't deny that game development is driven by making money, devs and publishers want to make money, it is a business, so the ideas of a revolutionary game need to have a certain level of economic impact in the market to become relevant at all.
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MeleeMonk
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Post by MeleeMonk on Mar 20, 2017 1:45:56 GMT
Dan, I love you like a brother, but holy cow is that a crap pick. Wii Sports, along with the Wii, was the most pathetic and gimmicky piece of "entertainment" to hit the market. It did not live up to the hype that Nintendo made out of it. Even Wii Sports Resort with the added motion plus felt underwhelming for me. I already hated virtual reality beforehand, but after playing Wii Sports & WS Resort, I developed a strong hatred of motion controls, which I see now as a gimmick thanks to Nintendo's failed promises with overhyping the technology.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Mar 20, 2017 1:55:33 GMT
Dan, I love you like a brother, but holy cow is that a crap pick. Wii Sports, along with the Wii, was the most pathetic and gimmicky piece of "entertainment" to hit the market. It did not live up to the hype that Nintendo made out of it. Even Wii Sports Resort with the added motion plus felt underwhelming for me. I already hated virtual reality beforehand, but after playing Wii Sports & WS Resort, I developed a strong hatred of motion controls, which I see now as a gimmick thanks to Nintendo's failed promises with overhyping the technology. To be fair, the thread is about influential games - be the influence good or bad. That said, I would mention Mortal Kombat for popularizing the kind of ultra-violent game with digitized sprites, something that both looks terribly ugly and tends to have awful gameplay. I'm of the opinion that the classic Mortal Kombat games are terrible fighting games, by the way: just play them nowadays and compare to the Capcom/SNK fighters, they don't stand a chance. And yet, they had such a huge influence in the 90s that I can't wrap my head around it.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Mar 20, 2017 9:36:50 GMT
That said, I would mention Mortal Kombat for popularizing the kind of ultra-violent game with digitized sprites, something that both looks terribly ugly and tends to have awful gameplay. I'm of the opinion that the classic Mortal Kombat games are terrible fighting games, by the way: just play them nowadays and compare to the Capcom/SNK fighters, they don't stand a chance. And yet, they had such a huge influence in the 90s that I can't wrap my head around it. They're not bad when you get good at them, if I wasn't decent at them after playing them for so many years I would probably think the same way. In fact you are not the first one that mentions that. I should be able to agree with this. You know I love SNK games more than anything, but Mortal Kombat game mechanics are not frustrating to me, all the combos I can perform flawlessly and I can measure space, and time, to do my moves accordingly, to have strategy. In fact I wish Mortal Kombat Arcade Kollection was on the PS4 because I love my DS4 controllers, and I would love to perform those combos on my new controllers, but I can't. I often find myself pressing those buttons just to release the tension of me wanting to press them in those controllers even without the game for it. I do have the game on the PS3, and sadly the D-Pad of the DS4 only works as a 4-Way D-Pad in the PS3, so it becomes useless. It is weird because when I think of KOF and Marvel Vs. Capcom all I ever want to use is my fightstick, but with Mortal Kombat games, the pad is what draws me in. Although I can enjoy them with the fightstick too, as that's how we played them when they came out. In a way I do understand what people mean when they say those things, but just because the game mechanics are not difficult neither frustrating to me, it is very hard for me to have empathy with that concept. I feel very free in those games. About the artstyle. I love it, I think it is the coolest artstyle ever, the realism, the costumes, the stands, everything looks ideal to me. In fact I would love if we would get those games again with a 16:9 aspect ratio and with modern TVs resolution, but I know it is not going to happen. This is similar like when you remember Super Mario 64 and Ocarina Of Time. I remember those games with vibrant colors and crystal resolution, but when you actually play those games on a modern TV, they don't look like that anymore. I do agree however that kind of art only works for Mortal Kombat. When I play Batman Forever, the game looks like crap to me, and the mechanics also feel bad, but I don't feel like that in Mortal Kombat Mythologies for example. I'm probably just extremely bias because of my love to that Universe, to the point that I can't see all these things that are wrong with those games even when I actively try to see them. One interesting case is Mokap in Mortal Kombat Armageddon. That character makes that game looks cooler just because that's the artstyle I love in Mortal Kombat in general, and I always wished everyone else was looking the same way in that game, but it was only him.
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Mar 20, 2017 11:08:49 GMT
Dan, I love you like a brother, but holy cow is that a crap pick. Wii Sports, along with the Wii, was the most pathetic and gimmicky piece of "entertainment" to hit the market. It did not live up to the hype that Nintendo made out of it. Even Wii Sports Resort with the added motion plus felt underwhelming for me. I already hated virtual reality beforehand, but after playing Wii Sports & WS Resort, I developed a strong hatred of motion controls, which I see now as a gimmick thanks to Nintendo's failed promises with overhyping the technology. (Don't tell anybody, but most of what I say is in jest.)
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Mar 20, 2017 11:46:46 GMT
Well it is one of the best selling video games ever made.
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Mar 20, 2017 15:25:52 GMT
Well it is one of the best selling video games ever made. True. My answers are really good.
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scipioafricanus
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Post by scipioafricanus on Mar 20, 2017 21:59:47 GMT
Dan, I love you like a brother, but holy cow is that a crap pick. Wii Sports, along with the Wii, was the most pathetic and gimmicky piece of "entertainment" to hit the market. It did not live up to the hype that Nintendo made out of it. Even Wii Sports Resort with the added motion plus felt underwhelming for me. I already hated virtual reality beforehand, but after playing Wii Sports & WS Resort, I developed a strong hatred of motion controls, which I see now as a gimmick thanks to Nintendo's failed promises with overhyping the technology. (Don't tell anybody, but most of what I say is in jest.)
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Dan E. Kool
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Post by Dan E. Kool on Mar 21, 2017 8:36:01 GMT
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MeleeMonk
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Post by MeleeMonk on Mar 23, 2017 2:09:25 GMT
Dan, I love you like a brother, but holy cow is that a crap pick. Wii Sports, along with the Wii, was the most pathetic and gimmicky piece of "entertainment" to hit the market. It did not live up to the hype that Nintendo made out of it. Even Wii Sports Resort with the added motion plus felt underwhelming for me. I already hated virtual reality beforehand, but after playing Wii Sports & WS Resort, I developed a strong hatred of motion controls, which I see now as a gimmick thanks to Nintendo's failed promises with overhyping the technology. That said, I would mention Mortal Kombat for popularizing the kind of ultra-violent game with digitized sprites, something that both looks terribly ugly and tends to have awful gameplay. I'm of the opinion that the classic Mortal Kombat games are terrible fighting games, by the way: just play them nowadays and compare to the Capcom/SNK fighters, they don't stand a chance. And yet, they had such a huge influence in the 90s that I can't wrap my head around it.
I second this. I have never had any interest in Mortal Kombat whatsoever. I hate the cheesy costume design and choppiness of the gameplay. Aside from the interesting premise and fatalities, the latter which was admittedly a cool novelty at the time, I don't think there's anything inspiring about them. And yeah, digitized graphics don't look appealing to me either. Xp
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