Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 0:21:57 GMT
kotaku.com/sources-sony-is-working-on-a-ps4-5-1765723053?utmSo it's been announced that, like Microsoft, Sony plans to release an upgraded version of their hardware (the new versions are being called the Xbone point five and PS4.5 respectively) in order to support 4K and VR headsets. For a long time I've been saying that the two big manufacturers are adopting the worst parts of PC gaming (glitchy/unfinished games, patches, updates, DLC etc.) instead of the good ones (cheap games, free mods)...and sometimes I hate being right. Just like PCs, now home systems will soon divide their audience by what hardware they can afford. What's next? Having to see if your console meets a game's system requirements? (I've always laughed at the 'PC Master Race' fanboys who brag after spending thousands of dollars on expensive setups...just to play a better-looking version of something already on a home system). I suppose what really puzzles me is not that MS and Sony are screwing early adopters or doing a 'Sega' (i.e. splitting their user base via hardware), but that over 2 years after release **there are STILL no great, innovative exclusives** for either one. I just watched an old Undertow video in which Derrick verbalized it perfectly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAAej0JiKT0): both companies and game players are far too focused on hardware and specs instead of great software. As he so rightly put, in the golden era of gaming you could point to two very distinct libraries for the two biggest competitors (SNES and Genesis) and make a good case for owning either (or both)...but that's just not the case today. I just can't get excited over better graphics or a multiplatform 'Call of Grand Creed 17' or whatever is popular now, and none of my friends who own the current gen consoles seem very excited or entertained. After spending hundreds of dollars, there's a general 'meh' sentiment about them; like me, they get far more excited by talking about old games like Pokemon or Perfect Dark, not HD remakes. So: do we really need better specs, 4K or VR headsets? Or should we still be focused on quality games? (as for me: the PC Engine and Retron 5 are looking better and better in terms of value for my money...!)
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lukefonfabre388
Sonic Wing
Move like a shadow, sting like a nuke.
Posts: 466
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Post by lukefonfabre388 on Mar 19, 2016 0:45:20 GMT
I think its funny that in 2005 and 2006 Sony and Microsoft released consoles that were comparable to high end gaming pc's at the time. Now years later they shat out low end gaming pc's that are just weak as crap. When Sony and Microsoft released the ps4 and Xbox one the hardware in them was already 2 or 3 years behind current pc's at the time. We are barely off the starting line here. See this is what happens when you release under powered systems for next gen and then find out later that what you have in them currently is to weak to do much with and you have to have the games toned down to get them to play right. I would not be surprised if developers have to do that just to get it to run well. Or they have to do that in the future for these new systems.
I'm getting a vita tomorrow to go alongside my 3ds. Decided to invest more time and money in handhelds then consoles. The dang vita is almost as strong as a ps3.
I bought a 1080p television for $1100 4 to 5 years ago and nobody better tell me now that its obsolete. Thankfully most TV's cant go above 1080p yet. Granted I probably could have shopped around for one for cheaper now that I think about it but instead spent more money then I probably should have on it. Damn technology goes to fast and I think we may reach a point where society just cant keep up anymore.
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
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Post by Cervantes on Mar 19, 2016 3:17:59 GMT
@player1 - I was watching recently the commentary track of the Best of CGR dvd, and I remember Mark gave an opinion similar to yours: he said the best console in this generation wasn't even a console, but a service (Steam - Mark was thinking of the huge library available and low prices), and noticed how current consoles are too much like pcs without the advantages given by pcs. One of the problems in this generation is that, as lukefonfabre388 said, Sony and MS emphasized hardware, on one hand, but released outdated hardware (by pc standards) on the other. They want to jump on the VR bandwagon, but the machines just aren't capable enough, even if they keep their VR solutions simpler than the Oculus/Vive ones. I, for myself, just can't understand such an emphasis on VR, considering how the technology is still too expensive and deals with very experimental control methods, so it might take a few years before it's really worthy - they should have waited to pursue that on their next consoles, when the technology might have matured enough. Now, if the "update" is a new console, that will be terrible (as it will be more expensive than an upgrade); if it's an upgrade, then it might suffer the same fate as the New 3DS (which, as I understand, only got one game that uses its superior power). Either way, it just doesn't look like a good idea at this point. But let's see what happens.
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lukefonfabre388
Sonic Wing
Move like a shadow, sting like a nuke.
Posts: 466
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Post by lukefonfabre388 on Mar 19, 2016 3:55:17 GMT
@player1 - I was watching recently the commentary track of the Best of CGR dvd, and I remember Mark gave an opinion similar to yours: he said the best console in this generation wasn't even a console, but a service (Steam - Mark was thinking of the huge library available and low prices), and noticed how current consoles are too much like pcs without the advantages given by pcs. One of the problems in this generation is that, as lukefonfabre388 said, Sony and MS emphasized hardware, on one hand, but released outdated hardware (by pc standards) on the other. They want to jump on the VR bandwagon, but the machines just aren't capable enough, even if they keep their VR solutions simpler than the Oculus/Vive ones. I, for myself, just can't understand such an emphasis on VR, considering how the technology is still too expensive and deals with very experimental control methods, so it might take a few years before it's really worthy - they should have waited to pursue that on their next consoles, when the technology might have matured enough. Now, if the "update" is a new console, that will be terrible (as it will be more expensive than an upgrade); if it's an upgrade, then it might suffer the same fate as the New 3DS (which, as I understand, only got one game that uses its superior power). Either way, it just doesn't look like a good idea at this point. But let's see what happens. Nintendo is having a hell of a time selling that new 3ds. Thats what my friend told me.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Mar 19, 2016 11:47:14 GMT
True VR is a game changer. True the VR experience is outstanding. True a lot of people bought 4K TVs during the holidays. True it is easy to bitch about how new gen consoles don't run games in 4K while good PCs do.
But still if this is exactly how it sounds. It is a dick move on consumers because you are telling then that the expensive machine they bought is obsolete now, which it is when compared to strong PCs, but it is still a dick move.
Honestly 1080p is good enough. When it comes to normal games most people won't see any relevant difference.
When it comes to VR it does matter because pixels do matter when it comes to VR. And yes the technology is amazing, and it will certainly be the future of PlayStation for the next 20 years, but most people can't afford it, and that's where the problem comes. They are putting too much hope on the thing too early.
I know they realize the VR potential. I know these are critical times where only the strong ones will survive. This is 5th gen all over again, and that's why they want to be strong. Not for today, but for the future. Yes VR is the Greatness Awaits they talked about from day 1.
But guess what, people have cellphones now, but they still have computers. People will have VR headsets but they will still play in regular TVs too. So Sony don't be dick.
Yes Madden, Call Of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, FIFA, Gran Trurismo, they will sell huge in VR. But people will still play them the old way. And making them lose faith in how much their money is worth is not the way to go.
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cobretti
Vanguard Ranger
Strong Arm Of The Law
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Post by cobretti on Mar 19, 2016 11:52:17 GMT
I wouldn't have a problem if games scale to the hardware being played (vanilla PS4: 1080p, PS4.5: 4K). Its if games are made exclusively for the newer system is where it becomes a problem. That being said, I hope they don't go though with this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 12:25:20 GMT
Cervantes: there's a difference though-- the new 3DS didn't come out a just a few years after the original and I would argue that the 3DS library is not only incredible, but the best of any current gaming device available. The Vita's failure is a perfect example of *much* more powerful hardware being rendered irrelevant by superior software. Even the PSP (which I love) has a far better selection of titles than the Vita. I guess I'm different from some people-- I just never said to myself: "Does my NES compare well with the power of a Commodore 64? Will Sega's next console scale well against current computers and support fingerprint readers?" It just NEVER crosses my mind. I actually say: "This Advance Wars is great fun; it reminds me of Nectaris!" or "Bomberman Saturn supports 10 players in the same room! Fantastic!" See the difference? ;-] I know capitalism requires us to act as consumers and buy stuff we don't really need to grease the wheels of the economy...but spending hundreds of my hard-earned dollars on a more powerful black box every 2-3 years just doesn't sound like fun to me-- in other words, it sounds like life as a "hardcore PC gamer." And if it's not fun, why continue participating in this hobby?
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,819
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Post by Cervantes on Mar 19, 2016 16:58:00 GMT
Cervantes : there's a difference though-- the new 3DS didn't come out a just a few years after the original and I would argue that the 3DS library is not only incredible, but the best of any current gaming device available. The Vita's failure is a perfect example of *much* more powerful hardware being rendered irrelevant by superior software. Even the PSP (which I love) has a far better selection of titles than the Vita. I just realized that my original post gave the impression that my point was: "the current consoles don't have enough power"; what I actually wanted to say was: "They shouldn't have put so much emphasis on power on the first place, as they can't compete with pcs, which are very similar but more powerful than them". I really like the PC, as it's my main platform right now, but I think consoles have their own space and shouldn't have to compete with it. While the Wii U had various problems, I still think it's the most interesting console outside the 3DS, as it at least would give me a different experience from my PC - the Xbone and PS4 would just feel like downgrades to me, as I would play mostly the same games with a lower fps/resolution, less control options, no mods, higher prices, paid online modes... But back to the comparison, keep in mind the Vita is a different thing altogether, not just a PSP update, so I don't think that's a good comparison. That's why I talked about the New 3DS: it's mostly an update to the 3DS (it's not like the difference from the GBA -> DS, PSP -> Vita or even DS -> 3DS). And I see that as a problem because for the people who already owned a 3DS, it's not worth it; for developers, it's also not worth to use the slightly increased power as they'll lose the established regular-3DS consumers. So, what you have is this slight upgrade in processing power that just sits there, unused, as most games are developed for the regular 3DS. Upgrades on consoles tend to fracture the market, and what usually happens is that developers keep making games for the majority of the user base (that is, people who don't have the upgrade), so the upgraded version never gets enough software. The 32X is, of course, the most popular example, but you could say that of the 64DD, the CD add-on for the PC-Engine, the 4MB-RAM for the Saturn (although this was, at least, just an inexpensive cartridge, as was the N64 RAM) etc. Console upgrades tend to be really niche and never get enough games specifically tailored for them. I far prefer when companies take a longer time and just release an entirely new console instead of trying to slightly upgrade their current ones. By the way, I really like the 3DS and will certainly buy one myself this year - probably the regular one, unless I find the New cheap enough -, so I do agree with you that it's the most interesting thing in this generation. Also, while I believe Sony and MS might really be pursuing upgrades to run their games in VR, I call bull**** on the 4K thing, as not even a very high-end pc will run games at that resolution in playable framerates. To get this kind of power, they would need completely new consoles and these consoles would be expensive as hell. Anyway, I stand by my stance that, right now, VR just isn't interesting enough - it's not affordable and the software is still not really there, as most games can't even solve the problem of how the player will move. Now, imagine having to pay the price of the Oculus/Vive and of a console upgrade to play a few short, experimental games.
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Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
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Post by Balder on Mar 19, 2016 17:59:03 GMT
"DAE hate the new consoles, amirite guys?!?!?! Fuck M$ and Sony, there's no difference in graphics from the 7th gen. Hold on while I suck Nintendos huge schlong for giving us good games like they used to make. Everything is a fps Call of Duty clone these days." - this fucking forum.
I've had it with your shit CGR forum. You're not like CGR, because CGR is about finding the fun in games, not a endless shredding circlejerk.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Mar 19, 2016 18:46:37 GMT
What Balder is saying rings something too. I have a new console and I love it. I probably spend the same amount as the console's price on software for it already, and I don't regret it. See I know that Sony move sounds dickish and it is, but maybe they find a way to not make it dickish like cobretti said and it will turn to be fine and better for us. Just think of the consumer that spend $400 on PS VR and see his friends at Valve and Oculus playing 4K software they can't get with Sony. They will feel left out. Sounds like Sony may be doing this to address that as well.
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,819
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Post by Cervantes on Mar 19, 2016 19:47:38 GMT
Balder and stratogustav - Nah, I don't think people are actually hating the new consoles over here; even @player1 's initial post reads more like "that's a terrible decision and they should invest more on innovative games than processing power", which is a valid opinion - but then, to be fair, I think at least Sony is already doing this with their heavy investment on indie developers in the latest years. I, personally, don't see many problems with the current consoles - but, unlike in the previous generation, I'm also not seeing a lot of reasons to own both a pc and 2 consoles as before. In the last generation, each console had at least 10 exclusive games that caught my attention; this generation is mostly multiplatform with only a few exclusives, and that's ok. The exception are the portables (that's why they're so interesting in my eyes) and, to a certain extent, the Wii U, as, on one hand, most of its main library is exclusive, but on the other it has almost no third-party support. Outside that, you'll have enough fun just getting one of the current consoles: any of them is good enough and has its own pros and cons. In my case, I went with a pc because it's actually cheaper in my country and I'm already used to the problems of the platform (like having to mess with configuration files when needed), so I don't see many reasons to get another console - my current reasons would only be Bayonetta 2 and Bloodborne, although you can add Phantom Dust to that list if MS ever gets it finished. So, last generation I got a pc and a 360, while having a heavy interest on the PS3 (and playing it a lot with friends) and on both portables (DS/PSP); this generation, I think a pc and a 3DS will be enough, but that doesn't mean I hate any of the other consoles/portables.
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fsfsxii
Space Striker
What to believe...
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Post by fsfsxii on Mar 19, 2016 21:05:23 GMT
"DAE hate the new consoles, amirite guys?!?!?! Fuck M$ and Sony, there's no difference in graphics from the 7th gen. Hold on while I suck Nintendos huge schlong for giving us good games like they used to make. Everything is a fps Call of Duty clone these days." - this fucking forum. I've had it with your shit CGR forum. You're not like CGR, because CGR is about finding the fun in games, not a endless shredding circlejerk. somewhat agree.. actually, scratch that, i whole heartedly agree. Not to mention this whole thread is a rumor, by kotaku of all sites...
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Mar 19, 2016 22:10:26 GMT
Cervantes How do you get your Nintendo fix without a Wii U? Do you own a 3DS?
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Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
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Post by Cervantes on Mar 19, 2016 22:19:25 GMT
Cervantes How do you get your Nintendo fix without a Wii U? Do you own a 3DS? Well, this is my problem: I'm not getting a Nintendo fix! But believe me: I'm this close to buy a 3DS; I only didn't do it yet because I bought a bunch of 360/Steam/Saturn games very recently, so my wallet is still recovering. Next month or so I'll finally get it! Interestingly, while there are some 3DS games I really want, my interest is mostly on DS ones, like the Castlevania games, Ninja Gaiden DS (BECAUSE OF COURSE), Mega Man Zero Collection and a few others. I also considered a PSP or Vita briefly just for the Ys series, but I think the 3DS has more games that I'm interested in.
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lukefonfabre388
Sonic Wing
Move like a shadow, sting like a nuke.
Posts: 466
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Post by lukefonfabre388 on Mar 19, 2016 23:01:47 GMT
I just got my vita today. Except I have nothing to play for it so ill have to go buy something.
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