stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 14, 2018 9:11:28 GMT
Brawl is a broken mess for competitive play, though. In Brawl the gameplay is much slower, the character roaster is extremely unbalanced, combos are non-existent due to hitstun canceling, addition of tripping...what kind of idiot would play this crap seriously? It's a party game through and through. I'd expect someone with an SNK avatar to have better taste in fighting games, not that Brawl can really be considered one. I also think you are an idiot for not liking Brawl. The difference is that I never considered Smash a proper fighting game. For me it is more like a brawler game. Brawlers share very similar characteristics, and may belong to the fighting genre in general, they can still be competitive and all, but to me they are their own thing, much more different than something you play with a fightstick.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Jun 14, 2018 17:15:41 GMT
I don't know much about Smash Bros., but I always had the impression it was more in the vein of games like Power Stone or Outfoxies - closer to a party game than a competitive one. The stage gimmicks and items are as important as the characters movesets, while in a fighting game the scenery is usually just a background. Of course, any two-player versus game can be competitive if you want to, but I mean that in the sense that proper balance and technical intricacies aren't the final target: it's intended for casual play and centered around fan service, even more than, let's say, Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (in which, being a fighting game, matches are still focused just on the characters' movesets).
That said, Melee's more technical side must've been almost an accident to Nintendo. If they pursue this competitive, technical and complicated side, they risk alienating the casual fanbase, which was always the intended target: it's a series made to fans of the characters, not to fans of fighting games. They probably don't want to get into a Street Fighter 3 or bullet-hell shooters situation, in which the technicalities become so overwhelming that only very dedicated fans get it and it becomes a niche thing.
The tripping thing in Brawl, as I understand, is more or less like the blue shells and other random, unfair items in Mario Kart: it doesn't matter how good you get at Mario Kart, other players can still tackle you on a random basis. This is something central in party games: using randomness as a way to level the playfield, since the focus isn't on competition but on making very different people have fun together (both people who have been playing that game for awhile and beginners). Smash is only a "serious" fighting game as much as Mario Kart is a serious racing game (for a more serious alternative to Mario Kart, compare it to Sonic and Sega All-Stars, in which randomness is toned down and a good player can always avoid enemy attacks).
I don't like party games much, but I definitely see where Nintendo is coming from.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 14, 2018 23:52:01 GMT
I love party games too, and I agree with everything you said about Smash Cervantes.
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on Jun 15, 2018 4:13:36 GMT
Brawl is a broken mess for competitive play, though. In Brawl the gameplay is much slower, the character roaster is extremely unbalanced, combos are non-existent due to hitstun canceling, addition of tripping...what kind of idiot would play this crap seriously? It's a party game through and through. I'd expect someone with an SNK avatar to have better taste in fighting games, not that Brawl can really be considered one. I also think you are an idiot for not liking Brawl. The difference is that I never considered Smash a proper fighting game. For me it is more like a brawler game. Brawlers share very similar characteristics, and may belong to the fighting genre in general, they can still be competitive and all, but to me they are their own thing, much more different than something you play with a fightstick. That's fine. Good for you. I don't have a problem with that opinion. But I do take issue with being told to buy Ultimate by someone who doesn't understand Melee's competitive mechanics nearly as well as I do. You need to understand that I don't enjoy the post-Melee SSB games at all. Cervantes For a long time I believed that same "beautiful accident" theory about Melee, too, until I found an IGN interview with series director (and creator) Masahiro Sakurai where he stated that Melee was his proudest achievement and that all of Melee's advanced techniques were completely intentional (as he revealed in a different interview with Nintendo Power magazine), but also suggested that the producers of the series weren't happy with his decision to make Melee's gameplay oriented towards competitive fighting game fans, and ordered him to simplify the gameplay so it would play like a party game. It was basically yet another example of executive control in the entertainment industry in an effort to make more money. I can link the interview for you if you want.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 15, 2018 4:17:04 GMT
That's fine. Good for you. I don't have a problem with that opinion. But I do take issue with being told to buy Ultimate by someone who doesn't understand Melee's competitive mechanics nearly as well as I do. You need to understand that I don't enjoy the post-Melee SSB games at all. It didn't sound that way talking to you. I had to point out some things you were wrong about, but I'm going to believe you simply because I don't play Melee regularly. In fact, I haven't played it in years.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Jun 15, 2018 13:12:33 GMT
I just bought the DLC for Xenoblade 2 because of E3.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on Jun 17, 2018 1:28:18 GMT
Spirit Bomb - So it's one of those conflicts between director and producers? That sucks. Back to E3 announcements, there were any obscure games that we missed? Any surprising indie ones?
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on Jun 17, 2018 2:16:43 GMT
Back to E3 announcements, there were any obscure games that we missed? Any surprising indie ones? I heard they had more gameplay for Bloodstained Ritual Of The Night. I'm glad the game is not getting cancelled. I had always been looking forward for it. Not Indies, but they had gameplay for Mega Man 11 and Team Sonic Racing, both looking really fun. The studio behind Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed decided to put on hold Crackdown 3 because in all honestly a Sonic Racer should aways be a priority. As far as I'm concerned they made the right call on that one.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on Jun 17, 2018 13:34:56 GMT
I heard they had more game play for Bloodstained Ritual Of The Night. I'm glad the game is not getting cancelled. I had always been looking forward for it. I just watched a video of it. It looks pretty good. I'm glad others are helping with that Castlevania itch that usually Konami is the only one to scratch.
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Spirit Bomb
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Post by Spirit Bomb on May 3, 2019 4:09:43 GMT
I hope that one day you learn to play Melee at a competitive level, so you can compare the gameplay to Ultimate to see how much more challenging it really is to play. Melee is a fine game, but I like Brawl better, and the new one looks even more promising than Brawl.By the way, I'm liking what I'm seeing of Team Sonic Racing. Those British guys have been taking a good care of this spin-off series. Just archiving this post in case Strat decides to edit or delete it. This post says it all. You lost all your credibility in talking about competitive Melee.
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on May 3, 2019 4:20:38 GMT
Just archiving this post in case Strat decides to edit or delete it. This post says it all. You lost all your credibility in talking about competitive Melee. Why would I delete it? I like Brawl more than Melee. Brawl is a better game overall. Just the soundtrack alone is better. That's not going to change. The only thing Melee was better over Brawl was the competitive side of it. Good thing now we have Ultimate which makes a great compromise between both worlds.
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Cervantes
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Post by Cervantes on May 16, 2019 4:46:03 GMT
So, are we close to this year's E3? Any announcements yet?
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stratogustav
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Post by stratogustav on May 16, 2019 13:41:09 GMT
So, are we close to this year's E3? Any announcements yet? Super Mario Maker 2 has been announced, and Final Fantasy VII Remake.
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dschult3
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Post by dschult3 on May 20, 2019 23:05:56 GMT
The rumor mill has been rather quiet this year.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Jun 9, 2019 23:20:00 GMT
Keaunu Reeves at the Xbox conference was such a funny reveal. Mind-blowing and wholesome. He presented Cyberpunk 2077 in such a fun way.
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