scipioafricanus
Cartoon Pony Wrangler
Sega Does What Nintendon't... except the 32X
Posts: 3,575
|
Post by scipioafricanus on Jun 1, 2017 1:01:49 GMT
I still don't see how your arguments scipioafricanus disprove mine, but whatever, it's your country. Also, perhaps we should stay away from politics. MeleeMonk sorry for side tracking this thread. I'll take partial blame for that one. A gun is simply a tool, which can be used for good or ill. Bad people will do bad things; guy in Sweden that drove a truck through a mall recently (had a bomb in it that didn't go off) chose a truck and bomb over guns. Banning the tool doesn't do a damn thing to stop them. Your own point: "Anders Behring Breivik was a political terrorist attack. He made a bomb blowing up a government building then went on to kill youths on a political camp on an island. This is very difficult to prevent as it's a planned and organised act of terror. I'm not arguing that stricter gun control prevents this since it happens in countries with strict gun control (like European countries)."He shot up a bunch of kids on an island; that is as close to a school shooting as you get. And then you said gun control can't prevent it because it happened in a country with strict gun control. "However, school shootings are often or at least some times random, ordinary people suddenly cracking and grabs an easy accessible gun and kills children/youths. With a stricter gun control policy, a lot of these shootings may have been prevented. But instead people like Trump wants to fight fire with fire and have guns even more accessible! Why is it that school shootings happen so much more frequently in the US? Why scipioafricanus ? You probably hold the 2nd amendment just as close as I do with video games so there's not much chance for me to change your mind anyways." You just said that a strict gun control nation can have attacks, but then you think gun control in the US will work? You disprove own point. Good timing on the video:
|
|
stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
|
Post by stratogustav on Jun 1, 2017 1:11:10 GMT
Balder and scipioafricanus I'm not saying there is something wrong with gun control. What I'm saying is purely sociocultural and geographic. Culturally, European Union countries and United States, despite the obvious differences, share similar backgrounds in the sense of how they perceive the world based on what a certain level of economic living allows. Geographically it is important to consider that United States is 9.83 Million Km2 and Europe in general is 10.18 Million Km2, which is not much of a difference if you ask me. So comparing the terrorist events of let's say Norway is like comparing the terrorists events of something like New Mexico. It is simply unrealistic to compare Norway with the entire United States because of that. If anything on the big scale, in United States we have a culture of gun control a lot higher, to the point that it is not confined only within our territory, but it extends through out the world as well. Hence events such as the war in Iraq are living proof of what these international policies can provoke even on an excusatory level. Although it is fair to say nuclear weapons, bazookas, handguns, are all part of very different categories.
|
|
Cervantes
Off-Brand Transformable Robot
A former Incompetent Evil Commander (XP: 2423)
Posts: 2,821
|
Post by Cervantes on Jun 1, 2017 1:59:39 GMT
First of all, if we are saying "hey, but shootings also happen in other countries!", we should put things into perspective - yes, people are killed in other countries, but, among developed countries, none is even close to the US statistics of gun related deaths. On average, the US has literally 10x more gun-related deaths than the average number of most developed countries. Here is the relevant statistic, which I got after a very quick search: www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/So there is definitely a problem there, there's no denying. Of course, it may be not a problem with gun control alone, but also a specific gun culture, as stratogustav said. To give an example, in Brazil (which is comparable in size to the US) there are laws to control guns, and yet, the death rate is twice that of the US - but that's because of the huge black market, the impossibly corrupt government and police, the excessive militarization of police forces and all the terrible social problems of an underdeveloped country. So, as scipioafricanus argued, passing laws for gun control alone doesn't solve it, that's something I can agree with (although I do think it's a very important step and I'm always in favor of it). Now, scipioafricanus , what I don't agree is with the "A gun is simply a tool" point. It's a tool, yes, but is a tool specifically created to kill as efficiently as possible - so it's not in the same category as a hammer or a knife, even if you could also use those to kill (they are meant to be used for different functions and won't work as well as a gun). That's its main purpose: I'm not saying that everyone will use it this way (swords were also created to kill, and I don't think people buy swords to go around killing people), but that is its main purpose. There's a reason why soldiers don't go to war armed with knives. You can kill with a knife or even your bare hands, but you'll hardly kill as many people before being stopped. Oh man, here I am talking about things I said I wouldn't talk about!
|
|
stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
|
Post by stratogustav on Jun 1, 2017 2:26:54 GMT
(swords were also created to kill, and I don't think people buy swords to go around killing people), but that is its main purpose. That was my point with what happened in Trollhättan (a potential case to blame hack & slash games too, not just shooters). This is not a black and white issue. Neither side has enough evidence to prove the other side wrong. At least statistically. Like I said, the reason why United States has that much more crime by comparison is because of the size of the country. It is not fair to compare it with European countries that are smaller not only in territory, but also in overall population.
|
|
|
Post by winnersdontusedrugs on Jun 1, 2017 2:35:44 GMT
"but, among developed countries" I love this meme stratogustav the US also has a completely different demographic that most european countries.
|
|
stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
|
Post by stratogustav on Jun 1, 2017 2:37:47 GMT
stratogustav the US also has a completely different demographic that most european countries. I agree. That's what I said when I talked about overall population. It is definitely an important factor to consider as well.
|
|
Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,827
|
Post by Balder on Jun 1, 2017 9:07:05 GMT
You've made excellent points Cervantes. It's pretty much what I wanted to say, but you perhaps said it better. Why is there so many gun related deaths in the US?
|
|
Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,827
|
Post by Balder on Jun 1, 2017 9:08:28 GMT
I can't wait for MeleeMonk to come back and see the mess he has created.
|
|
Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
|
Post by Dan E. Kool on Jun 1, 2017 9:19:17 GMT
centipede okay, but why do school shootings happen so often in the US compared to nations (that are equally developed) with stricter gun control. Maybe if NORWAY - and other nations, but especially Norway - were buying more guns, the United States wouldn't have to buy so many. You look at what's happening in Oslo. You look at Stavanger. Just look at what's happening in Tromsø. Tromsø! Can you believe it? The 'o's are being wiped out, one by one, and nø øne can støp it! Norway is now many many years behind in it's gun spending. It's not buying as many guns as it should be buying, and its not buying what it's supposed to be buying, which is more guns. This is not fair to the people and tax payers of the United States. Over the past ten years, Americans have spent more on guns than Norwegians have payed for all of their expenses combined. It's a lot of guns, folks. If Norway were to spend just 2% of their GDP on American goods, they would have bought two billion Big Macs, a great sandwich. But even 2% of GDP is insufficient to supply each American with 10 free Big Macs, which I understand, is what we had agreed on. We have to act. We have to act swiftly. Fast food has to be served swiftly, there can be no other way.
|
|
Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,827
|
Post by Balder on Jun 1, 2017 9:32:32 GMT
centipede okay, but why do school shootings happen so often in the US compared to nations (that are equally developed) with stricter gun control. Maybe if NORWAY - and other nations, but especially Norway - were buying more guns, the United States wouldn't have to buy so many. You look at what's happening in Oslo. You look at Stavanger. Just look at what's happening in Tromsø. Tromsø! Can you believe it? The 'o's are being wiped out, one by one, and nø øne can støp it! Norway is now many many years behind in it's gun spending. It's not buying as many guns as it should be buying, and its not buying what it's supposed to be buying, which is more guns. This is not fair to the people and tax payers of the United States. Over the past ten years, Americans have spent more on guns than Norwegians have payed for all of their expenses combined. It's a lot of guns, folks. If Norway were to spend just 2% of their GDP on American goods, they would have bought two billion Big Macs, a great sandwich. But even 2% of GDP is insufficient to supply each American with 10 free Big Macs, which I understand, is what we had agreed on. We have to act. We have to act swiftly. Fast food has to be served swiftly, there can be no other way. I like how you have no idea what an Ø is. Anyways, we changing subject to McDonald's now or what?
|
|
stratogustav
Supreme Overlord
Warrior with Bandana
Posts: 7,460
|
Post by stratogustav on Jun 1, 2017 9:49:36 GMT
I take my comment back. After looking some data it looks like I'm wrong. U.S. does have massively significant higher numbers, at least nowadays. Maybe I'm looking at bad data because if it is good data I'm definitely shocked.
I didn't know the situation was that bad, particularly now that I'm taking into consideration that U.S. population only accounts for less than half of Europe's, including African and Middle Eastern immigrants. I found that very interesting considering how much more less severe are the penitentiary sentences for crimes in Europe.
|
|
Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
|
Post by Dan E. Kool on Jun 1, 2017 13:15:43 GMT
Maybe if NORWAY - and other nations, but especially Norway - were buying more guns, the United States wouldn't have to buy so many. You look at what's happening in Oslo. You look at Stavanger. Just look at what's happening in Tromsø. Tromsø! Can you believe it? The 'o's are being wiped out, one by one, and nø øne can støp it! Norway is now many many years behind in it's gun spending. It's not buying as many guns as it should be buying, and its not buying what it's supposed to be buying, which is more guns. This is not fair to the people and tax payers of the United States. Over the past ten years, Americans have spent more on guns than Norwegians have payed for all of their expenses combined. It's a lot of guns, folks. If Norway were to spend just 2% of their GDP on American goods, they would have bought two billion Big Macs, a great sandwich. But even 2% of GDP is insufficient to supply each American with 10 free Big Macs, which I understand, is what we had agreed on. We have to act. We have to act swiftly. Fast food has to be served swiftly, there can be no other way. I like how you have no idea what an Ø is. Anyways, we changing subject to McDonald's now or what? Is this conversation moving too quickly for you? Do you want me to break it down into bite-sized, Big Mac flavored, information sandwiches? Would that be better?
|
|
Balder
Supreme Overlord
Trying to cut down the amount of movies I watch
Posts: 6,827
|
Post by Balder on Jun 1, 2017 13:18:31 GMT
I like how you have no idea what an Ø is. Anyways, we changing subject to McDonald's now or what? Is this conversation moving too quickly for you? Do you want me to break it down into bite-sized, Big Mac flavored, information sandwiches? Would that be better? I prefer Big Tasty, but go ahead.
|
|
Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
|
Post by Dan E. Kool on Jun 1, 2017 13:20:21 GMT
I can't wait for MeleeMonk to come back and see the mess he has created. Don't try to blame this on the Maestro. You know what you did.
|
|
Dan E. Kool
Walking Trash Can Robot
Now With Extra Pulp!
Posts: 3,325
|
Post by Dan E. Kool on Jun 1, 2017 13:23:21 GMT
Is this conversation moving too quickly for you? Do you want me to break it down into bite-sized, Big Mac flavored, information sandwiches? Would that be better? I prefer Big Tasty, but go ahead. You know what they call Big Tastys in Norway?
|
|